Judging a rollable drop

bails87

If you still struggle after putting this advice into practice, consider coaching. I had a bit of a mental block on this sort of thing til I went to see Jedi at ukbikeskills.

I was the same, but with a different skills coach, in fact I remember rollling up to the 'big' drop in question and bottling it several times before finally forcing myself to ride off it. I wouldn't blink at something like that now.

Speed is your friend, as well as being settled on the bike when you approach the jump, because if you go slow you'll 'feel' the drop more, given that the front will drop while the back is still on the top. Unfortunately, the skills area is pretty tight and twisty, so when you're already nervous about the drop you don't tend to be in a relaxed, comfortable state when you're approaching it. When they're mingled in amongst flowing singletrack they feel more natural and you're probably not building it up in your head so it's easier to drop off.

nferrar

I'm not familiar with the drops at Llandega but the technique remains the same between say a 10" drop and a 3' one, it just all comes down to bottle. How high are the level 2 ones? If you can consistently hit those fast and in control then you just need to commit to doing the level 3 one with the same technique. Rolling a 10" drop if definitely harder than riding it at speed if you're using the correct technique (not pulling up on the bars over the lip being one of them).

bails87

Good point about not pulling up. Don't know if it's already been said, but push the bars forwards, rather than pulling them up.

welshkev

bails87 wrote:

Good point about not pulling up. Don't know if it's already been said, but push the bars forwards, rather than pulling them up.

i was actually thinking of this last night on my ride ( i said to pull up or unweight teh front end) i don't pull up, i just lean back and un weight the front if i'm hitting drops at speed :oops:

so no, don't pull up

scottfitz

boost the drop to flat? :twisted:

97th choice

bails87 wrote:

If you still struggle after putting this advice into practice, consider coaching. I had a bit of a mental block on this sort of thing til I went to see Jedi at ukbikeskills.

I was the same, but with a different skills coach, in fact I remember rollling up to the 'big' drop in question and bottling it several times before finally forcing myself to ride off it. I wouldn't blink at something like that now.

Speed is your friend, as well as being settled on the bike when you approach the jump, because if you go slow you'll 'feel' the drop more, given that the front will drop while the back is still on the top. Unfortunately, the skills area is pretty tight and twisty, so when you're already nervous about the drop you don't tend to be in a relaxed, comfortable state when you're approaching it. When they're mingled in amongst flowing singletrack they feel more natural and you're probably not building it up in your head so it's easier to drop off.

Good advice, here. your problem seems to be all to do with pace and confidence.

All the crashes I has last weekend were from not committing myself to a drop or jump

bennett_346

Depends on the drop. With some if there is a long distance to clear and the takeoff is flat with no lip, barrel hopping off the end can help, instead of just rolling off.

ddraver

nferrar wrote:

I'm not familiar with the drops at Llandega but the technique remains the same between say a 10" drop and a 3' one, it just all comes down to bottle. How high are the level 2 ones? If you can consistently hit those fast and in control then you just need to commit to doing the level 3 one with the same technique. Rolling a 10" drop if definitely harder than riding it at speed if you're using the correct technique (not pulling up on the bars over the lip being one of them).

Yes but there are nice friendly looking 2ft drops and horrible nasty looking 2ft drops, the ones at Llandegla are not encouraging for learning on. It does nt help that the small ones are barely 1ft and easily rollable (as in you barely haev to stand up) so within the 20yrds between the med and the large you go up a significant step as you can't bluff the large ones.

ilovedirt

bails87 wrote:

Good point about not pulling up. Don't know if it's already been said, but push the bars forwards, rather than pulling them up.

I 100% disagree with this. Do NOT push forward on the bars. Sure fire way to go over the bars. (this is if you are actually planning on hitting the drop, not rolling it)
As I said earlier, learn how your bike balances and ride off the drop on a neutral position so that you land on both wheels at the same time. Depending on the drop, you will learn how fast you need to be riding and how far back you need to be leaning.
Here is my friend Kev demonstrating why you should not push forward on a drop. On a very easy drop might I add. Go fast and keep the bike neutral.

trevron73

Ive done the same as Kev, i bottled the drop and tried to roll off but carried too much speed and when the suspensionion dived with forward motion, +100 kilo went over the bars.Now i manual off, taking care to not go back for too long and to stand strong in time for the landing .Also remember the first time you encounterd other obsticles like berms and bumps ,now you probably smash round the berms and bumps trying to get air off jumps ,thats how the drops will be after 1 or 2 runs at speed .

welshkev

ilovedirt wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Good point about not pulling up. Don't know if it's already been said, but push the bars forwards, rather than pulling them up.

I 100% disagree with this. Do NOT push forward on the bars. Sure fire way to go over the bars. (this is if you are actually planning on hitting the drop, not rolling it)
As I said earlier, learn how your bike balances and ride off the drop on a neutral position so that you land on both wheels at the same time. Depending on the drop, you will learn how fast you need to be riding and how far back you need to be leaning.
Here is my friend Kev demonstrating why you should not push forward on a drop. On a very easy drop might I add. Go fast and keep the bike neutral.

ouch!!! was he OK?

jairaj

trevron73 wrote:

.. stand strong in time for the landing ..

Not sure if this is just a poor choice of words but I don't agree with this comment.

When at the apex of your air time, you want to extend your arms and legs ready to absorb the impact when landing. You want your arms and legs to stay supple not rigid.

Not sure what else I can add to this thread apart summarise what has been said already. Have a look at magazines and on the web for how too guides. Go for ones by well know publications or from professional racers. Don't try a copy some guy called Bob who wants 5 mins of fame on the web as you might pick up bad habits. Start off small and slowly work your way to bigger obstacles. If you still have trouble attempting it even on very modest sized trail features I guess the only way to move forward is tuition.

nwmlarge

go see jedi at ukbikeskills will teach you all you need to know to hit most trail centre stuff

Boy Lard

I read the OP differently I think.

I didn't think the OPer was asking how to manual drop offs, I thought he was asking how you judge what you can safely roll off. I agree that sometimes it's easier to drop than roll, but sometimes that just isn't possible because of what would be the landing. With the saddle down and you bum on the back tyre, it's pretty surprising what you can simply roll and I would suggest it's way more than 8-10 inches.

I ride up at Ilkley Moor a bit and there is a downhill rock garden that I'm pretty certain you can't just hit at full speed and drop all of the lumps and bumps. There are some rocks in that requiring a good 18 inch to 2 foot roll off, slow speed. Similarly, I rode Jacob's Ladder last weekend, and while I'm sure that it can be hit a lot faster than I was doing it, riding it steady and rolling rather than dropping some of the bigger lumps felt safer to me. (I really wouldn't mind doing tit again on a full susser though as by the time I'd finished the ride I felt like I'd been beaten to a pulp).

As to how to judge what you can safely roll, if I want to practice something, I'll get off the bike and roll it over the obstacle and see what BB clearance I have and what angle the bike makes with the ground. I wish I had some pictures to better explain what I am trying to say.

Boy Lard

I guess I mean like this. I would rather roll these 'steps', because I don't like the look of the landing.

bails87

ilovedirt wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Good point about not pulling up. Don't know if it's already been said, but push the bars forwards, rather than pulling them up.

I 100% disagree with this. Do NOT push forward on the bars. Sure fire way to go over the bars.

It's not a sure fire way of going over the bars, otherwise I'd have gone OTB on every drop I've ridden!

The vid (ouch, btw, hope he was alright) looked to me like the front of the bike dropped off the lip and the rider just followed it. The handlebars fell, that straightened his arms, his arms got to being completely straight so then his upper body was yanked down, when the bike stopped dropping his weight was already shifted forwards and he was moving down and forwards even more having been 'yanked' by the bars. Hence the OTB.

I said 'push forwards' because that's a key part of the technique of manualling, if you manual off a drop then the front wheel doesn't/shouldn't drop uncontrollably, so you don't get pulled forwards. Instead you get the bike landing with both wheels, like you said.

ilovedirt

If you're talking about pushing forwards with your feet, rather than pushing on the bars (kind of sounds like you mean push the front down) then yeah fair enough.

stanny_uk

i did a skills course and it sorted this instantly as everytime i used to hit a jump or drop i'd try to pull up and send everything into uncontrolled take off.. He got me thinking always heavy pedals for a drop or jump to safely go off stable.. ie now i try to mono of drops offs slightly to keep bike more level/stable. His theory must work as i havent crashed off a jump recently and i used to a lot!!

The Northern Monkey

I like to float.
Hit with enough speed and let gravity take over, just be in the 'attack' position and adjust your weight for a smooth landing.

I don't see why anyone would need to pull up or push forwards on a drop if you're going fast enough.

You should always check out a jump or drop before hitting it though. If its an unknown trail to the rider, then you ether judge the trail as you ride or take it easy and stop to check any drops.

bails87

ilovedirt wrote:

If you're talking about pushing forwards with your feet, rather than pushing on the bars (kind of sounds like you mean push the front down) then yeah fair enough.

Not pushing the front down, pushing it forwards, to 'rotate' the front of the bike upwards, like a manual. (Hands pushing the bars forwards). It's always hard to describe on the internet isn't it!

The Northern Monkey

The Northern Monkey wrote:

I like to float.
Hit with enough speed and let gravity take over, just be in the 'attack' position and adjust your weight for a smooth landing.

I don't see why anyone would need to pull up or push forwards on a drop if you're going fast enough.

You should always check out a jump or drop before hitting it though. If its an unknown trail to the rider, then you ether judge the trail as you ride or take it easy and stop to check any drops.

At 1:30, I didn't actually do anything... just kept the speed up and let the bike do the work..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJZRbM4RoTo&feature=plcp

paul.skibum

Yeah but with the technique right you can do big drops slower which is important when the drop and the steepness of the hill dictate that speed will build up pretty quick either during the drop or following the landing - sometimes there isnt a catchers mitt berm at the bottom!

ilovedirt

bails87 wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

If you're talking about pushing forwards with your feet, rather than pushing on the bars (kind of sounds like you mean push the front down) then yeah fair enough.

Not pushing the front down, pushing it forwards, to 'rotate' the front of the bike upwards, like a manual. (Hands pushing the bars forwards). It's always hard to describe on the internet isn't it!

Ah ok, gotcha.

Yeah like paul said, sometimes you need to hit drops slowly, so you don't end up with too much speed at the bottom or overshoot the landing. Don't forget that not all trails are built incredibly well

Jedi

the guy in the vid sat back and shoved his arms out at the lip. that is NOT pushing.

Northwind

ilovedirt wrote:

Do NOT push forward on the bars. Sure fire way to go over the bars. (this is if you are actually planning on hitting the drop, not rolling it).

Absolute rubbish. What your video shows is just someone making a total bollocks of a drop, tells you nothing about the validity of the technique he failed to use! Your approach does work but is very speed dependant, where as pushing through/manualling a drop isn't- it's by far the better way to do it.

YeehaaMcgee

danlightbulb wrote:

The skills area at Degla would be great but the level 2 ones were easy and all of a sudden the level 3's (to me) are too hard.

er...
That's kind of how progression is made.
Why have a series of drops that you find easy, right up until the one that's 3mm higher, that you struggle with? if you struggle you struggle, so overcome it.

danlightbulb wrote:

I'm struggling to commit to enough speed to clear them.

Nothing anyone else can do about that, apart from maybe remove your brakes.

cooldad

Blindfold?

ilovedirt

Northwind wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

Do NOT push forward on the bars. Sure fire way to go over the bars. (this is if you are actually planning on hitting the drop, not rolling it).

Absolute rubbish. What your video shows is just someone making a total **** of a drop, tells you nothing about the validity of the technique he failed to use! Your approach does work but is very speed dependant, where as pushing through/manualling a drop isn't- it's by far the better way to do it.

Yeah, I mis-understood what bails was trying to say. That is the technique I use, depending how fast I'm riding...

Northwind

Ah, sorry, I missed all that. :oops:

ilovedirt

However you are right, he did make a total dog's dinner of that drop