Giant Defy 3 to Supersix 105 but not much performance gain

sirlylos

Hi guys,

I recently purchased a Cannondale Supersix 105 and moved up from a Giant Defy 3 which I was and am still very fond of but I love the look of the Supersix and it feels great to ride. However, I was really hoping to get on the bike and smash any existing records I had - not the case entirely.

I have become slightly fixated with trying to get a sub 30mins on a 10 mile route that I do around my town. On the Defy I'd worked hard, dropped 2 stone and got close with 33:11 but still not sub 30. I got the Supersix 2 weeks ago and I've got to 31:53 but still no sub 30 . I'm ok with this but yesterday I went out on a hilly ride to see how the new steed faired and....it was disastrous, I simply couldn't climb and seemed totally drained of energy. I've gone from a triple to a compact but I've been assured this shouldn't hinder me too much.

I wondered, is it harder to ride in winter? my lungs felt under-oxygenated (maybe the cold) and the road felt very tacky - it was a little icy and the roads were wet and muddy but I don't remember feeling this on the Defy. I've been doing a lot of riding lately and dropped a bit of weight so in theory I should be fitter/better/stronger but I just don't feel it.

Any riding veterans out there had similar experiences? the supersix should be much better in theory!

simon_masterson

The short answer is that the difference in performance between bikes is generally very small. You can't expect a bike to make you something that you are not; what propels it? I realise that the bike marketing machine would love you to believe that you must have the lightest possible frame with deep section carbon wheels, but you must not be fooled.

Forgive me if I sound condescending (not intending to), but at a time like that the equipment is not consequential. Once you are very light and very fit, and your average speed is more like 27mph over 10 flat miles, you should be worried. I've recorded 18 miles in 43 minutes and that was on a cheap Raleigh leisure bike from the '80s on the way home from work; based on average speed I'd have done the first 10 miles in about 24 minutes, and I can comfortably manage 8-10 flat miles around the 30 minute mark.

But it is true that cold air isn't good for your lungs (I'm asthmatic), and it's not a good idea to go hell for leather on wet and icy roads.

sirlylos

Thanks Simon. I hear what you're saying and I know the lighter I get the quicker I'll get.

I did find it easier climbing on the old defy than this thing though, potentially just an off day or some adjustments I maybe need to make to the bike.

It's funny, the lighter you are the quicker you go and easier you climb but to get lighter you need to climb and ride hard/fast!

alihisgreat

The difference is small between bikes.. but since there is a big difference in the Defy 3 and the Supersix I'd expect it to be noticable (although perhaps not as large as you expect)

Its more likely that adverse conditions are affecting your quest for a faster time.. and adjustment to a new riding position can take a while.

but just enjoy the bike and don't think too much about it.

and if its a 56cm you can always give it to me If you're not happy.. and you can have my Defy in return.

simon_masterson

That does sound a bit like fit to me, but maybe you're just getting used to the new bike? You did say that you've gone from a triple to a compact, which - depending on what gears you use - will affect your performance. Have you compared the setup of the two, out of interest?

But I wouldn't worry about it too much! You'll get there; and beyond, of course. Keep up the good work.

sirlylos

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

and if its a 56cm you can always give it to me If you're not happy.. and you can have my Defy in return.

A 56cm is exactly what it is but despite it not making me super fast I'm still in luuuurve

Simon Masterson wrote:

Have you compared the setup of the two, out of interest?

But I wouldn't worry about it too much! You'll get there; and beyond, of course. Keep up the good work.

I've not compared the two but I will give that a go actually, it's worth knowing at least. And thanks, I love riding regardless of the times - although if I can get a 27mph average I'll be one happy man!

alihisgreat

sirlylos wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

and if its a 56cm you can always give it to me If you're not happy.. and you can have my Defy in return.

A 56cm is exactly what it is but despite it not making me super fast I'm still in luuuurve

Simon Masterson wrote:

Have you compared the setup of the two, out of interest?

But I wouldn't worry about it too much! You'll get there; and beyond, of course. Keep up the good work.

I've not compared the two but I will give that a go actually, it's worth knowing at least. And thanks, I love riding regardless of the times - although if I can get a 27mph average I'll be one happy man!

Mines a Defy 1 though.. two less than three!

Grill

You dropped over a minute on a 10 mile route and you don't think there's a big difference? If I found a bike that saved me that much time on a 10 I'd be handing over the cash no questions asked...

nolight

The weight loss going from Al Sora to Carbon 105 is negligible compared to the 2 stones lost. They are both road bikes so the difference won't be as great as MTB vs road bike.

In any vehicle, engine is the most important part, but the bicycle doesn't come with one.

napoleond

The biggest improvement to your climbing will not necessarily come from training and upgrades, but from diet.

Plus, you need to make sure the bike is set up right for you.

Oh, and you can always have an off day...

marcusjb

NapoleonD wrote:

Oh, and you can always have an off day...

100%

It is difficult to make judgements on fitness on single ride times, you need to look at trends over weeks/months.

We all have an off day from time to time, and also weather can have a large impact on times.

Don't stress, keep on riding, watch the diet and the time will come to you. (But definitely do not go crazy on icy roads, it is the short cut to a few weeks off the bike with a busted collar bone).

whojanicanackerov

NapoleonD wrote:

The biggest improvement to your climbing will not necessarily come from training and upgrades, but from diet.

Plus, you need to make sure the bike is set up right for you.

Oh, and you can always have an off day...

Nap when you mention Gaining the most from diet would you be referring to weighing less?
Or from nutrients from a balanced diet?

sirlylos

I think he means getting lighter from the diet, although it could mean both weight and nutrition - both are good!

southdownswolf

The two most important factors are the engine and what fuel you put into it :-)

t4tomo

whojanicanackerov wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

The biggest improvement to your climbing will not necessarily come from training and upgrades, but from diet.

Plus, you need to make sure the bike is set up right for you.

Oh, and you can always have an off day...

Nap when you mention Gaining the most from diet would you be referring to weighing less?
Or from nutrients from a balanced diet?

I beg to differ with the shortarsed frenchman

diet may lead to weight loss which will help.

training will lead to inccreased fitness, correct muscles built up and weight loss which will help more.

There is no substitute for hard work!

Wrath Rob

NapoleonD wrote:

Plus, you need to make sure the bike is set up right for you.

This plus lots. You're obviously at the stage of your cycling career where you're starting to take it more seriously and have invested some cash in a nice bike. In order to get the most out of it, you need to be in the right position on the new bike, one that is both comfortable and also enables you to produce the most power in the most efficient way. If you know what you're doing (most of us don't) then you can do this yourself. If you don't, then getting a good bike fit will make a massive difference.

If you felt comfy on the Giant, you can use that as a benchmark and set up the S6 to the same key measurements like saddle to bottom bracket height (adjust seat post up and down), saddle nose to bottom bracket centre line (move saddle back and forwards), saddle nose to bars (change stem length), bar height (spacers over/under stem). However, a proper bike fit will look at these and then so much more. Ask on here for one in your area and go and see them.

kbmack

Are the gear ratios similar between the two bikes? Is the overall lowest gear between the two bikes very different, with the Supersix being 'less forgiving'? If so, this may help to explain difficulties on the hills.

simon_e

sirlylos wrote:

I wondered, is it harder to ride in winter?

Yes. Cold, dense air, winter clothing and sketchy road conditions do not normally make for best times.

It may be that you are a bit under the weather or have not slept/eaten as well as on the period when you set your best time aboard the Defy.

the supersix should be much better in theory!

I'd say it should be a bit better, and a large part of that thanks to better wheels.