Never Really Thought it would Happen

Dog Breath

Had just done half a mile at the start of a gentle pootle with the Mrs when a neandethal in a pickup sounds his horn behind me as I'm positioning myself to turn right. I had been towards the centre line for some time and signalling right. There was absolutely no other traffic on the road at the time. As he undertakes me, the meat-head shouts 'I PAY ROAD TAX'. He may have said other things that I did not hear. I called him an idiot.

He turns right at the same junction only to stop in another 50 yards outside some shops !! It was 9.30 on a quiet Sunday morning and I probably didn't even delay him by a second. Hardly rush hour when people can be stressed.

Just what was the point? I really do not understand some people.

DB

DrLex

Some people are just idiots; best to just ignore it and keep your karma.

However, I blame you for my hearing "Up the Junction" in my head, thanks to the thread title.

xcmad

this road tax thing.... I really don't get it.

Are people stupid enough to think because we are riding a bike that we don't pay road tax? I pay for 2 cars to be on the road. What are they on about?

turnerjohn

can better that....got overtaken very slowly by some knobs in a Focus shouting stuff (didn't get it all) one even grabbed the tax disk out the car hung out the window shouting "get one of these" (I do have a car !) but didn't say a thing...just smilled at them....joke was on them as traffic built up and they had to stop....I filtered through, spanked it up the climb the other side and left them in the queue....I call that karma

meanredspider

It doesn't help that the Oxford entrance exam had a question on "road tax" asking whether it was fair to pay the same amount of "road tax" if you do more miles than average :roll:

When people bring up this point against cyclists, it just confirms them as thick

rubertoe

I don't have a car. Does that make me scum cos I ride my bike on the road?

Torvid

rubertoe wrote:

I don't have a car. Does that make me scum cos I ride my bike on the road?

yes you should start riding on the pavement ASAP, you can also now RLJ as you have no reason to know the highway code

Duncanandthemachine

FYI folks, road tax was abolished in 1937. Vehicle Excise Duty actually pays for you to use a motorised vehicle on the road, and it goes into the general taxation pot, not some specific road fund. Not that the meatheads car, but I enjoy pointing out to them that they don't know the rules!

Try googling I Pay Road Tax.

rubertoe

Duncanandthemachine wrote:

FYI folks, road tax was abolished in 1937. Vehicle Excise Duty actually pays for you to use a motorised vehicle on the road, and it goes into the general taxation pot, not some specific road fund. Not that the meatheads car, but I enjoy pointing out to them that they don't know the rules!

Try googling I Pay Road Tax.

Mine was a sarcastic response, I think the VEDS/Road Tax argument is well known round these parts.


I still don't drive though

xcmad

thank you duncan and/or the machine for clarity

coopster_the_1st

Duncanandthemachine wrote:

FYI folks, road tax was abolished in 1937. Vehicle Excise Duty actually pays for you to use a motorised vehicle on the road, and it goes into the general taxation pot, not some specific road fund. Not that the meatheads car, but I enjoy pointing out to them that they don't know the rules!

Try googling I Pay Road Tax.

I hate this response to the I pay road tax brigade.

If cyclists just said that VED is based on emissions, hence there is no need for a bicycle to pay road tax, it would get the message across a lot clearer rather than an over official message like above

meanredspider

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Duncanandthemachine wrote:

FYI folks, road tax was abolished in 1937. Vehicle Excise Duty actually pays for you to use a motorised vehicle on the road, and it goes into the general taxation pot, not some specific road fund. Not that the meatheads car, but I enjoy pointing out to them that they don't know the rules!

Try googling I Pay Road Tax.

I hate this response to the I pay road tax brigade.

If cyclists just said that VED is based on emissions, hence there is no need for a bicycle to pay road tax, it would get the message across a lot clearer rather than an over official message like above

But that would be to replace one myth with another myth. If that were the case, we'd have a free tax disc (like other vehicles that pay no tax).

SteppenHerring

To be honest, VED probably costs a metric fudgeload to implement and enforce. I would happily be rid of it, add the extra onto fuel (which covers the emissions component) and introduce insurance discs. Mainly just to shut these idiots up.

DrLex

SteppenHerring wrote:

To be honest, VED probably costs a metric fudgeload to implement and enforce. I would happily be rid of it, add the extra onto fuel (which covers the emissions component) and introduce insurance discs. Mainly just to shut these idiots up.

Trouble is, they'd then moan instead about insurance and/or the cost of fuel.

SteppenHerring

DrLex wrote:

SteppenHerring wrote:

To be honest, VED probably costs a metric fudgeload to implement and enforce. I would happily be rid of it, add the extra onto fuel (which covers the emissions component) and introduce insurance discs. Mainly just to shut these idiots up.

Trouble is, they'd then moan instead about insurance and/or the cost of fuel.

They (we? I am a motorist too) whine about the cost of fuel regardless. To recoup the loss from VED you'd probably only have to add a couple of pence to a litre. Which considering rises due to other stuff is fark-all.

cyclingprop

The VED link to emissions is there to drive (geddit) choice of vehicle, which would be lost if you rolled it in to fuel tax in my view.

meanredspider

I think it's there to also stop people just "collecting" heaps of cars and leaving them in the road. I guess mandating insurance for a car parked on the road (rather than being driven which I guess is the requirement now) would achieve the same thing. VED also keeps cars MOT'd, though. Could you link an insurance disc to that? Again, you'd have to insist that any car kept on the road was MOT'd - and maybe introduce an MOT "disc" (why on earth are they round?)

adskis

Actually it's even more complicated than that.
The measure for the CO2 emission is done over a pre-determined engine test cycle. Some clever German car manufacturers are altering the output with mapping and smart exhausts.
So in the real world, the CO2 output is much higher than quoted (and therefore being paid for)

BigJimmyB

SteppenHerring wrote:

To be honest, VED probably costs a metric fudgeload to implement and enforce. I would happily be rid of it, add the extra onto fuel (which covers the emissions component) and introduce insurance discs. Mainly just to shut these idiots up.

^this.

Your Insurance docs and MOT certificate should come with a disc that you have to display. Failure to display either one is 3 points.

Sick of my premiums going up every year to subsidise non-payers.

Add the VED to fuel. The more you use, the more you pay.

mtb-idle

I think you are all complicating the 'need' or 'purpose' of VED.

It's just another excuse to tax us, nothing more, nothing less.

meanredspider

MTB-Idle wrote:

I think you are all complicating the 'need' or 'purpose' of VED.

It's just another excuse to tax us, nothing more, nothing less.

Then why do I need one for my 1969 Alfa? It costs me nothing ("historic vehicle" status) so it can't be for the tax. If its only purpose was to tax us, it wouldn't be linked to MOT and insurance.

ETA - it's a once a year confirmation of:

1. Registration
2. Insurance
3. Roadworthiness

CiB

MTB-Idle wrote:

I think you are all complicating the 'need' or 'purpose' of VED.

It's just another excuse to tax us, nothing more, nothing less.

You say this as if the govt taxes us for the fun of it. If VED didn't exist, a similar amount would have to be raised by other means, unless of course there was a widespread agreement by the electorate that the welfare state and public spending has reached such stupidly epic proportions that massive cutbacks to allow the removal of VED would be widely welcomed. Judging by Mr Osbourne's efforts to gain consensus on the current spending reductions, I wouldn't hold my breath...

The Rookie

Adskis wrote:

Actually it's even more complicated than that.
The measure for the CO2 emission is done over a pre-determined engine test cycle. Some clever German car manufacturers are altering the output with mapping and smart exhausts.
So in the real world, the CO2 output is much higher than quoted (and therefore being paid for)

Its a drive not engine cycle, a whole car drives the cycle but on a rolling road.

Reduced power engines have been around for years, has little effect on CO2 unless you use wide open throttle, which most drivers do less than 1% of the time so those factors are pretty irrelevant.

The reason the latest CO2 reductions aren't being seen on road is because people on the road don't drive the cycle (obvious), manufacturers and being forced to achieve targets that have little real world meaning but the legislation leaves them no choice.

Just as a point of interest, in the 1980's the UK gov't commisioned an agency to do some testing and it found that a 50cc scooter plus rider has a lower CO2 emissions than a cyclist as the internal combustion engine is more efficient than a human being. Although at least the cyclist is soley fueled from renewables, don't forget the CO2 cost of getting them to your tummy!

rjsterry

The Beginner wrote:

Adskis wrote:

Actually it's even more complicated than that.
The measure for the CO2 emission is done over a pre-determined engine test cycle. Some clever German car manufacturers are altering the output with mapping and smart exhausts.
So in the real world, the CO2 output is much higher than quoted (and therefore being paid for)

Its a drive not engine cycle, a whole car drives the cycle but on a rolling road.

Reduced power engines have been around for years, has little effect on CO2 unless you use wide open throttle, which most drivers do less than 1% of the time so those factors are pretty irrelevant.

The reason the latest CO2 reductions aren't being seen on road is because people on the road don't drive the cycle (obvious), manufacturers and being forced to achieve targets that have little real world meaning but the legislation leaves them no choice.

Just as a point of interest, in the 1980's the UK gov't commisioned an agency to do some testing and it found that a 50cc scooter plus rider has a lower CO2 emissions than a cyclist as the internal combustion engine is more efficient than a human being. Although at least the cyclist is soley fueled from renewables, don't forget the CO2 cost of getting them to your tummy!

There was an item on the news the other day about HMRC looking to revise the whole vehicle taxation arrangement as the drive towards lower emission vehicles was starting to have a detrimental effect on tax receipts.

mtb-idle

rjsterry wrote:

There was an item on the news the other day about HMRC looking to revise the whole vehicle taxation arrangement as the drive towards lower emission vehicles was starting to have a detrimental effect on tax receipts.

Absolutely. Which reconfirms that most of you are getting lost in the detail (quelle surpise?) and not looking at the fundamentals which is that it is a method of raising taxation. Pure and simple.

meanredspider

MTB-Idle wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

There was an item on the news the other day about HMRC looking to revise the whole vehicle taxation arrangement as the drive towards lower emission vehicles was starting to have a detrimental effect on tax receipts.

Absolutely. Which reconfirms that most of you are getting lost in the detail (quelle surpise?) and not looking at the fundamentals which is that it is a method of raising taxation. Pure and simple.

It a "duty" so of course it's a method of raising taxation! :roll: But it serves other purposes which would need to be taken into account if it were abolished.

t4tomo

BigJimmyB wrote:

Your Insurance docs and MOT certificate should come with a disc that you have to display. Failure to display either one is 3 points.

Sick of my premiums going up every year to subsidise non-payers.

Add the VED to fuel. The more you use, the more you pay.

The main reason insurance premiums go up is not so much non payers (although this ciontributes) its the rise of claims management companies acting on behalf of (and often owned by) our insurance companies.

In the old days when you had a prang, it got booked into the body shop and the body shop provided you with a small run around courtesy car to use whilst your car was being repaired. Now you get a hire car, invarianbly brand new like for like replacement, hired at inflated rates. This often costs more than the repair costs and the other insurance company foots the bill.

The only winners are the car hire and claims management companies

JamesB5446

The Beginner wrote:

Just as a point of interest, in the 1980's the UK gov't commisioned an agency to do some testing and it found that a 50cc scooter plus rider has a lower CO2 emissions than a cyclist as the internal combustion engine is more efficient than a human being. Although at least the cyclist is soley fueled from renewables, don't forget the CO2 cost of getting them to your tummy!

I'm calling BS on this. There, I've said it!

SimonAH

I'm very disappointed. I thought this thread was going to be about a girl from Clapham.

:-)

BigJimmyB

Ah, that night on windy common, eh?

Headhuunter

JamesB5446 wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

Just as a point of interest, in the 1980's the UK gov't commisioned an agency to do some testing and it found that a 50cc scooter plus rider has a lower CO2 emissions than a cyclist as the internal combustion engine is more efficient than a human being. Although at least the cyclist is soley fueled from renewables, don't forget the CO2 cost of getting them to your tummy!

I'm calling BS on this. There, I've said it!

Yes, sounds like utter b0llox to me... Is there a link? Are you sure it wasn't funded by the 50cc Scooter Appreciation Society or something?