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Recommend me a coil shock please

Ollie83Ollie83 Posts: 22
edited November 2012 in MTB buying advice
Hi there, I have a lovely 2010 orange blood fitted with a RP23 fox shock at the minute. Unfortunately I am more of a fan of the simplicity of a coils shock and dew to my weight of 15 stone would prefer a coil shock. I would think a Fox one of comparible value and spec would be in order but thought someone here might know better.

So what size of coil shock do I need, what spring do I need and what model do I want is what am asking I think :)

Cheers in advance.

Posts

  • YeehaaMcgeeYeehaaMcgee Posts: 5,740
    I wouldn't bother. Air shocks are far more tuneable to rider weight, and there's really very little to go wrong on them.
  • Ollie83Ollie83 Posts: 22
    Really? I feel that coil is more reliable and stronger built. Suppose it comes from my riding era of the late nighties when air was for xc and coil for everything else! Lol. I might persevere with the rp23 yet then.
  • YeehaaMcgeeYeehaaMcgee Posts: 5,740
    RP23 is a cracking shock. The best of the best.
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 14,770
    If you can afford it the Cane Creek Double Barrel is extremely good. It's so sensitive to small bumps and tracks the ground so well that it really improves the amount of grip you have and they are easier to set up than a Fox DHX or Rockshox vivid even though they have more adjustment. Coils are just as tunable as air shocks, you fit the right weight spring and tweak it to suit with preload adjustment. Not many air shocks have high & low speed compression and rebound adjustment which allows you to find the perfect set up.
    Coils feel so much nicer than air. Even the CCDB air is nowhere near as good as the CCDB coil.
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    Ollie83 wrote:

    So what size of coil shock do I need, what spring do I need and what model do I want is what am asking I think :)

    Cheers in advance.
    exactly the same size as fittted. and use a spring calculator on TF or Mojos webby to work it out.

    but i would not bother not worth it.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Ollie83Ollie83 Posts: 22
    Measuring between the eyelets I'm getting 190mm or 7.5inch and travel I'm sure it's 2inch. That sounds about right I think?
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 14,770
    http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/arch ... ood_frame/

    Length is 190mm. I cant see the stroke length.
  • paul.skibumpaul.skibum Posts: 4,068
    If you are keen I would call or drop a line to Mojo stating your bike, exact weight and intended uses what you hope to achieve and see what they come back with - they work with Orange a fair bit and will be able to supply you with the appropriate Fox coil.

    If you want the Cane Creek DB then you may need to go elsewhere however.
    Closet jockey wheel pimp censored .
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 14,770
    TF Tuned are good for Cane Creek shocks.
  • .blitz.blitz Posts: 6,197
    Ollie83 wrote:
    ...more of a fan of the simplicity of a coils shock
    Although there's no denying coil shocks are simple and will always 'get you home' they are by their nature linear and nowhere near as progressive as an air shock. What this means in practice is that you will need to find a spring that is both responsive to small stuff and yet is still supportive enough so that it doesn't blow through the travel on bigger stuff. It can be done but be prepared to experiment with springs instead of a few psi here and there. Progressively-wound motorbike springs are not unusual but I'm not sure if you can get them for mountain bikes
    Ollie83 wrote:
    ...and dew to my weight of 15 stone would prefer a coil shock.
    With all due respect 15 stone is no reason to buy a coil shock. Plenty of people heavier than 15 stone (oh hai!) use air shocks no problem.
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    .blitz wrote:
    Ollie83 wrote:
    ...more of a fan of the simplicity of a coils shock
    Although there's no denying coil shocks are simple and will always 'get you home' they are by their nature linear
    yes but that is only half of the story. and is only true when a spring is compressed in a straight line. introduce an arc and are changing the spring rate. suspension designs can be linear (very rare) rising or falling rate.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • LagrangeLagrange Posts: 652
    Another factor is maintenance - I used to live in the middle east and had an air shock which needed new seals. Impossible so effectively no cycling. Of course that does not apply in the West but there you go.
  • EH_RobEH_Rob Posts: 1,134
    I'd just ride your bike to be honest.

    My current bike came with a coil shock, so I just ride it. I like it. I'm sure if it had come with an equivalent air shock I'd also like that and just ride it.
  • EH_Rob wrote:
    I'd just ride your bike to be honest.

    My current bike came with a coil shock, so I just ride it. I like it. I'm sure if it had come with an equivalent air shock I'd also like that and just ride it.

    This ^

    And that's a cracking shock you've got there. If everything is working well, I'd leave well alone
    "Why have that extra tooth if you're not using it?" - Brian Lopes

    Votec V.SX Enduro 'Alpine Thug' 2012/2013 build

    Trek Session 8
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 14,770
    If you want more positive advice try the ride.io forum.
    The Blood is a freeride bike, not an xc bike. A lot of people run coil shocks on the Blood. While air shocks are better than coil for xc riding, for hard riding (FR/DH) coils perform far better. Even DH specific air shocks can't match the performance of a DHX4 or vivid coil shocks and Cane Creek shocks are even better than those.
  • EH_RobEH_Rob Posts: 1,134
    If you want more positive advice try the ride.io forum.
    The Blood is a freeride bike, not an xc bike. A lot of people run coil shocks on the Blood. While air shocks are better than coil for xc riding, for hard riding (FR/DH) coils perform far better. Even DH specific air shocks can't match the performance of a DHX4 or vivid coil shocks and Cane Creek shocks are even better than those.

    So there's your choice of three, I agree they're about the best around. I run a DHX5.0 coil, and really like it.

    I wouldn't say we aren't being positive here, and I don't dispute the fact it's a good bike for a coil. I'm just not sure that weighing 15st is a good reason to switch to coil on its own, and it would seem I'm not alone.

    What sort of riding do you mainly do? Is the shock holding you back?

    If you're riding hard (i.e. freeride or downhill), maybe a coil is the best way. But before you spend the money you should ask yourself what you're trying to achieve - what is the problem with the current setup, and how will changing your hardware solve it?

    The RP23 is extremely capable, and unless you're a FR/DH rider I'm just not sure you'll see much of a benefit in shock performance, and add a heap of extra weight to your bike.
  • EH_Rob wrote:
    I'd just ride your bike to be honest.

    My current bike came with a coil shock, so I just ride it. I like it. I'm sure if it had come with an equivalent air shock I'd also like that and just ride it.

    This ^

    And that's a cracking shock you've got there. If everything is working well, I'd leave well alone

    Saying that...if you're selling the RP23, let me know :wink:
    "Why have that extra tooth if you're not using it?" - Brian Lopes

    Votec V.SX Enduro 'Alpine Thug' 2012/2013 build

    Trek Session 8
  • Well, thanks for the multitude of replies guys! Varying opinions here. I think I am going to keep my RP23 and get it rebuilt/tuned by TF and go from there.

    I mainly do light-freeride stuff with a bit up street but no massive drops and the like. I honestly thought my weight would be an issue in the long term for it but maybe not. Hopefully the more I get out the less of it the shock will have to hold up lol!!!

    Thanks again :)
  • Ollie83 wrote:
    I mainly do light-freeride stuff

    Freeride is kinda Downhill crossed with dirt jumping i.e. huge air, big drop, lots of tricks etc
    "Why have that extra tooth if you're not using it?" - Brian Lopes

    Votec V.SX Enduro 'Alpine Thug' 2012/2013 build

    Trek Session 8
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 14,770
    Ollie83 wrote:
    I mainly do light-freeride stuff

    Freeride is kinda Downhill crossed with dirt jumping i.e. huge air, big drop, lots of tricks etc

    Or finding the ugliest line down a hill or mountain.
  • Ollie83 wrote:
    I mainly do light-freeride stuff

    Freeride is kinda Downhill crossed with dirt jumping i.e. huge air, big drop, lots of tricks etc

    Or finding the ugliest line down a hill or mountain.

    ha! Indeed!
    "Why have that extra tooth if you're not using it?" - Brian Lopes

    Votec V.SX Enduro 'Alpine Thug' 2012/2013 build

    Trek Session 8
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    Lagrange wrote:
    Another factor is maintenance - I used to live in the middle east and had an air shock which needed new seals. Impossible so effectively no cycling. Of course that does not apply in the West but there you go.

    If you blow the damper in a coil shock, it'll still ride but it'll be absolutely terrible.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    While air shocks are better than coil for xc riding, for hard riding (FR/DH) coils perform far better. Even DH specific air shocks can't match the performance of a DHX4 or vivid coil shocks and Cane Creek shocks are even better than those.

    Is there a specific reason you think this? why shouldnt the double air perform to a lower standard than the coil? BOS seem to have found air to be better in both shock and fork for DH bikes.
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    lawman wrote:
    While air shocks are better than coil for xc riding, for hard riding (FR/DH) coils perform far better. Even DH specific air shocks can't match the performance of a DHX4 or vivid coil shocks and Cane Creek shocks are even better than those.

    Is there a specific reason you think this? why shouldnt the double air perform to a lower standard than the coil? BOS seem to have found air to be better in both shock and fork for DH bikes.
    One word heat.

    Air shocks can get too hot. But it all depends on the course.

    Work any spring and it will heat up. You don't notice it on a coil spring. The heat is then transferred to the oil which then thin. Causing the damping to change.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 14,770
    lawman wrote:
    While air shocks are better than coil for xc riding, for hard riding (FR/DH) coils perform far better. Even DH specific air shocks can't match the performance of a DHX4 or vivid coil shocks and Cane Creek shocks are even better than those.

    Is there a specific reason you think this? why shouldnt the double air perform to a lower standard than the coil? BOS seem to have found air to be better in both shock and fork for DH bikes.

    I have ridden a Scalp with a CCDB air & I own a scalp with a CCDB coil. Similar set ups. The coil is much plusher and reacts better to big high speed hits. The air shock is good and much better than a Fox DHX air but it's not as good as the coil CCDB, especially on a long fast DH track like Cwmcarn where the air shock looses some performance. The air shock is more expensive.
    If air shocks could perform as well as coil then motocross bikes would be using air as well.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    If air shocks could perform as well as coil then motocross bikes would be using air as
    well.

    You mean like the 2013 cross bikes with the kayaba air suspension?
    Uncompromising extremist
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    Northwind wrote:
    If air shocks could perform as well as coil then motocross bikes would be using air as
    well.

    You mean like the 2013 cross bikes with the kayaba air suspension?
    I wonder how they are managing the heat this time. last time they tried it they got to hot or they weighted to much.

    be interesting how it goes.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • YeehaaMcgeeYeehaaMcgee Posts: 5,740
    Do they actually use air, or Nitrogen? Nitrogen's properties remain more stable with temperature change. That might work.
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    Air, and user-adjustable too.

    No idea how well it's going to work mind... But the Showa air fork's been on a few race bikes for the last year, apparently.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    Northwind wrote:
    Air, and user-adjustable too.

    No idea how well it's going to work mind... But the Showa air fork's been on a few race bikes for the last year, apparently.
    air forks are fine. the "shock" ratio is 1:1 and are big volume all the better to disperse the heat. been around for years as you know from the DH forks
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
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