Wheelsmith race 23 Wheelset.

Crispyapp

Has anyone on here got a pair of these and can you offer more info about them, how do they compare to ksyrium slr? I know there cheaper and claimed to be lighter (just) however how do they ride in comparison. I cannot find any reviews for them or decent pictures of them online.

Thanks

ugo.santalucia

I would assume it is a set of velocity a 23 rims or equivalent on some light hubs... Probably 24/28 holes... Am I wrong?

Bobbinogs

There's a post here with all you want to know...

viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12887749

Crispyapp

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I would assume it is a set of velocity a 23 rims or equivalent on some light hubs... Probably 24/28 holes... Am I wrong?

These are what I'm talking about. http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/news/63-new ... 23-tweaked

Crispyapp

Bobbinogs wrote:

There's a post here with all you want to know...

viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12887749

Yes this thread is what prompted me to post this. There isn't enough info on here for me. The review on that thread is censored . And the pictures are not great either... I'm after a proper users review and hi res pics of the wheels ideally.

ugo.santalucia

Crispyapp wrote:

Bobbinogs wrote:

There's a post here with all you want to know...

viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12887749

Yes this thread is what prompted me to post this. There isn't enough info on here for me. The review on that thread is censored . And the pictures are not great either... I'm after a proper users review and hi res pics of the wheels ideally.

Bitex hubs rebranded, 23 mm rims non machined and sapim cx ray spokes 20/24. The black on the sidewalk will wear out in time revealing the alloy, like it does in the Archetype rims.
Personally I would build them with better hubs, maybe saving with less expensive spokes... Similar money But the total weight would go up to 1500 grams

leloby

ugo.santalucia wrote:

.....

Bitex hubs rebranded, 23 mm rims non machined and sapim cx ray spokes 20/24. The black on the sidewalk will wear out in time revealing the alloy, like it does in the Archetype rims.
Personally I would build them with better hubs, maybe saving with less expensive spokes... Similar money But the total weight would go up to 1500 grams

Just so's you know, the 23mm wide/25mm deep rims are machined and then the whole lot anodised. The coating is thick enough to resist heavy knocks and is impervious to wear if you use decent pads. The green Mavic's designed for their R-Sys wheels and SwissStop Yellow Race/Kings work very well. Neither do they wear the rims or squeal in use - even in censored weather. This is not forum-style ill-informed conjecture, it is the result of tests and feedback from customers.

The rear hub shells are made by a (smallish) CNC specialist in Taiwan and make use of the Bitex patented (and excellent) 6 pawl mechanism with 12 engaging faces - ubiquitous and put to good effect by a host of high-end wheel manufacturers. Quicker engagement than Novatec and better seals. The front and rear flange spacing is perfect for both deep section rims and anything down to about 25mm. Spokes are Sapim CX-Rays and there is a cheaper option of Pillar PSR X-Tra 1422 which offers a slightly less luxurious ride.

Cheers,
Derek
Wheelsmith Ltd.

ugo.santalucia

leloby wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

.....

Bitex hubs rebranded, 23 mm rims non machined and sapim cx ray spokes 20/24. The black on the sidewalk will wear out in time revealing the alloy, like it does in the Archetype rims.
Personally I would build them with better hubs, maybe saving with less expensive spokes... Similar money But the total weight would go up to 1500 grams

Just so's you know, the 23mm wide/25mm deep rims are machined and then the whole lot anodised. The coating is thick enough to resist heavy knocks and is impervious to wear if you use decent pads. The green Mavic's designed for their R-Sys wheels and SwissStop Yellow Race/Kings work very well. Neither do they wear the rims or squeal in use - even in censored weather. This is not forum-style ill-informed conjecture, it is the result of tests and feedback from customers.

The rear hub shells are made by a (smallish) CNC specialist in Taiwan and make use of the Bitex patented (and excellent) 6 pawl mechanism with 12 engaging faces - ubiquitous and put to good effect by a host of high-end wheel manufacturers. Quicker engagement than Novatec and better seals. The front and rear flange spacing is perfect for both deep section rims and anything down to about 25mm. Spokes are Sapim CX-Rays and there is a cheaper option of Pillar PSR X-Tra 1422 which offers a slightly less luxurious ride.

Cheers,
Derek
Wheelsmith Ltd.

We have had hard anodised rims for the best part of 30 years... the process is always the same... from memory Campagnolo Omega did wear, Mavic Cd do wear, Nemesis and Crono do wear, the more recent Archetype does wear, so how come yours are so special that they don't wear?
Braking is friction and although the Al2O3 is much harder than rubber, rubber often carries debris from the road, which does grind off even the hardest coat.
I accept that on clean roads, in sunny Majorca and with new, clean, soft pads, the wear will be a lot slower and might take thousands of miles, other than this "idillic use" they will behave like the Omega, the Mavic CD and the Ambrosio.

leloby

Well, I'm sure if you add a load of debris and thousands of miles of use then the coating will get "damaged" and start the wear process just like any other rim.
I don't see the issue really. Your conjecture about Mallorcan riding is actually true - and proven (at least in Malaga!). It's also proven on Islay, where the weather conditions are rather different to say the least!
They are getting hammered in the Scottish CX series this year so I'll be able to give you an update on "rim wear" at the end of that. So far so good.
These rims take advantage of new pad technology. Things have moved on a bit since Omega "hedge magnets" were paired with wooden "blocks" and the coating was ruined 1st ride out.
I saw that idea as a cost cutting exercise, coat the entire rim, don't bother machining it and market it as "better". Back then it was worse, it only got better when the coating did wear through!
Cheers.

Crispyapp

leloby wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

.....

Bitex hubs rebranded, 23 mm rims non machined and sapim cx ray spokes 20/24. The black on the sidewalk will wear out in time revealing the alloy, like it does in the Archetype rims.
Personally I would build them with better hubs, maybe saving with less expensive spokes... Similar money But the total weight would go up to 1500 grams

Just so's you know, the 23mm wide/25mm deep rims are machined and then the whole lot anodised. The coating is thick enough to resist heavy knocks and is impervious to wear if you use decent pads. The green Mavic's designed for their R-Sys wheels and SwissStop Yellow Race/Kings work very well. Neither do they wear the rims or squeal in use - even in censored weather. This is not forum-style ill-informed conjecture, it is the result of tests and feedback from customers.

The rear hub shells are made by a (smallish) CNC specialist in Taiwan and make use of the Bitex patented (and excellent) 6 pawl mechanism with 12 engaging faces - ubiquitous and put to good effect by a host of high-end wheel manufacturers. Quicker engagement than Novatec and better seals. The front and rear flange spacing is perfect for both deep section rims and anything down to about 25mm. Spokes are Sapim CX-Rays and there is a cheaper option of Pillar PSR X-Tra 1422 which offers a slightly less luxurious ride.

Cheers,
Derek
Wheelsmith Ltd.

Derek.

It would be really great if you could post some hi res images of the wheels, or maybe pm me a link where I could view them. I've searched online and cannot find any decent pictures of the wheels.

Thanks

ugo.santalucia

leloby wrote:

Well, I'm sure if you add a load of debris and thousands of miles of use then the coating will get "damaged" and start the wear process just like any other rim.
I don't see the issue really. Your conjecture about Mallorcan riding is actually true - and proven (at least in Malaga!). It's also proven on Islay, where the weather conditions are rather different to say the least!
They are getting hammered in the Scottish CX series this year so I'll be able to give you an update on "rim wear" at the end of that. So far so good.
These rims take advantage of new pad technology. Things have moved on a bit since Omega "hedge magnets" were paired with wooden "blocks" and the coating was ruined 1st ride out.
I saw that idea as a cost cutting exercise, coat the entire rim, don't bother machining it and market it as "better". Back then it was worse, it only got better when the coating did disappear.
Cheers.

I don't see the issue either... just a piece of information for those who are obsessed about the bike looking immaculate.
These are my Nemesis after roughly 1200 miles of dry use...

leloby

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/news/63-new ... 23-tweaked

More to follow.

giant_man

Wheelsmith 1 Ugo.Santalucia 0

ugo.santalucia

giant man wrote:

Wheelsmith 1 Ugo.Santalucia 0

Why? We are saying the same thing... :shock:

leloby

Nice to see the Nemesis rims wearing fairly evenly. Let's face it, a rim braking surface isn't the most attractive part of a bike!

Braking surface wear comes down to rider weight, riding style and an endless amount of other factors really. I know guys who's rims last literally forever, and those who wear through them at an alarming rate.

To demostrate the "bulletproof" nature of these rims I have just shot one with a HFC German Gas Sniper Rifle with 6mm ammunition from approximately 10yrds. The resulting impact (which would probably kill a rabbit) has only slightly creased the rim and the majority of the anodised coating is intact. Don't try this at home please:

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/race23-rims ... ulletproof

napoleond

I'm going to have to get me some of these. After I've got my 50mm carbons!

ugo.santalucia

leloby wrote:

To demostrate the "bulletproof" nature of these rims I have just shot one with a HFC German Gas Sniper Rifle with 6mm ammunition from approximately 10yrds. The resulting impact (which would probably kill a rabbit) has only slightly creased the rim and the majority of the anodised coating is intact. Don't try this at home please:

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/race23-rims ... ulletproof

Mmmhh, Scotland must be the wild west... if I did that here, I'd have a helicopter hovering over the roof and an anti terrorism squad in no time...

gloomyandy

I've heard people say that their rims are "bullet proof" but this is the first time I've seen anyone actually put it to the test!

LegendLust

I'd like to see a video of the 'bomb proof' test please

wishitwasallflat

leloby wrote:

To demostrate the "bulletproof" nature of these rims I have just shot one with a HFC German Gas Sniper Rifle with 6mm ammunition from approximately 10yrds. The resulting impact (which would probably kill a rabbit) has only slightly creased the rim and the majority of the anodised coating is intact. Don't try this at home please:

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/race23-rims ... ulletproof

You sir are my new hero - absolutely the best thread ever

mitchgixer6

I'm tempted by a set of these, but am confused as to what benefit they would have over a set of RS80's (or second hand 7850 C24's) which are over £100 cheaper. Can anyone point out the main differences please?

ugo.santalucia

mitchgixer6 wrote:

I'm tempted by a set of these, but am confused as to what benefit they would have over a set of RS80's (or second hand 7850 C24's) which are over £100 cheaper. Can anyone point out the main differences please?

They can be fixed and serviced at low cost, they will be less harsh on the road, they are more aerodynamically efficient and even lighter, if you care about these things... And they are black

However, shimano dura ace hubs are way superior

mitchgixer6

Thanks for that Ugo.

Yeah, I'm in a bit of a fuddle at the moment. I'm very tempted by a set of Dura Ace C24's that are on here just now. I have a set of Planet X 82/101 wheels that I use for TT's (on my road bike), so am looking for a more all rounder wheel that I can use on club runs/training runs/APR's/Crit's. Everything really! Decisions decisions!!

Evil Laugh

ugo.santalucia wrote:

mitchgixer6 wrote:

I'm tempted by a set of these, but am confused as to what benefit they would have over a set of RS80's (or second hand 7850 C24's) which are over £100 cheaper. Can anyone point out the main differences please?

They can be fixed and serviced at low cost, they will be less harsh on the road, they are more aerodynamically efficient and even lighter, if you care about these things... And they are black

However, shimano dura ace hubs are way superior

Are you just making that up?

LegendLust

Evil Laugh wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

mitchgixer6 wrote:

I'm tempted by a set of these, but am confused as to what benefit they would have over a set of RS80's (or second hand 7850 C24's) which are over £100 cheaper. Can anyone point out the main differences please?

They can be fixed and serviced at low cost, they will be less harsh on the road, they are more aerodynamically efficient and even lighter, if you care about these things... And they are black

However, shimano dura ace hubs are way superior

Are you just making that up?

No he's not

ugo.santalucia

mitchgixer6 wrote:

Thanks for that Ugo.

Yeah, I'm in a bit of a fuddle at the moment. I'm very tempted by a set of Dura Ace C24's that are on here just now. I have a set of Planet X 82/101 wheels that I use for TT's (on my road bike), so am looking for a more all rounder wheel that I can use on club runs/training runs/APR's/Crit's. Everything really! Decisions decisions!!

If you go for factory wheels, get them new, as once the warranty is not valid, any repair will be very costly. Factory rims are typically charged 150 pounds each vs 50 quid for a handbuilts replacement rim... Also often spokes and other spares are not available for weeks...

EKIMIKE

^^^ This is why i'm getting some 'handbuilts'. I've got a pair of Mavic Ksyrium Elites - fine for 3 years, then they start making noises which become progressively louder and more annoying during the fourth. Now they are unbearable to ride. They main problem (amongst a few others) is that the bladed spokes have dug into each other where they are crossed on the rear wheel. This is what makes the noise.

Both rims are fine. The rear hub is fine. The front spokes are fine. The front hub is not and comes loose often (but is manageable) and the rear spokes are terrible. Ideally i'd replace the rear spokes and maybe the front hub but it's simply not worth the cost. It's seriously frustrating to essentially scrap a wheelset that cost £400, albeit 4 years ago, which has plenty of use left in the majority of its components.

Of course if you're happy to spend that kind of money every four years and chuck out perfectly useful kit then fine. Personally, i'd rather not.

ugo.santalucia

EKIMIKE wrote:

^^^ This is why i'm getting some 'handbuilts'. I've got a pair of Mavic Ksyrium Elites - fine for 3 years, then they start making noises which become progressively louder and more annoying during the fourth. Now they are unbearable to ride. They main problem (amongst a few others) is that the bladed spokes have dug into each other where they are crossed on the rear wheel. This is what makes the noise.

Both rims are fine. The rear hub is fine. The front spokes are fine. The front hub is not and comes loose often (but is manageable) and the rear spokes are terrible. Ideally i'd replace the rear spokes and maybe the front hub but it's simply not worth the cost. It's seriously frustrating to essentially scrap a wheelset that cost £400, albeit 4 years ago, which has plenty of use left in the majority of its components.

Of course if you're happy to spend that kind of money every four years and chuck out perfectly useful kit then fine. Personally, i'd rather not.

Mavic makes excellent hubs... I have a set of 501 from the 1980s, one of the first with sealed bearings and still the best money can buy... They also make very good assembled wheels, but their policy on spare parts is shocking... Why two spare rims have to cost the same as the all wheelset? It is a rip off, there is no other way to describe it

EKIMIKE

The bearings still run smooth. I have no idea why but the front hub (only) loosens and introduces a massive amount of play into the front wheel. So much so it's noticeable out of the saddle uphill - i can feel, hear and see the rim touching the brake blocks. Fine once i tighten the fitting... only for about 100 miles though.

pkripper

EKIMIKE wrote:

The bearings still run smooth. I have no idea why but the front hub (only) loosens and introduces a massive amount of play into the front wheel. So much so it's noticeable out of the saddle uphill - i can feel, hear and see the rim touching the brake blocks. Fine once i tighten the fitting... only for about 100 miles though.

a dab of loctite on the thread?

markos1963

mitchgixer6 wrote:

I'm tempted by a set of these, but am confused as to what benefit they would have over a set of RS80's (or second hand 7850 C24's) which are over £100 cheaper. Can anyone point out the main differences please?

The other advantage of handbuilts is that people like Derek can discuss your specific needs and build the wheel to suit you. The factory wheels are built for a broad range of riders and uses, so are often a compromise.