I don't understand tt bikes
boogi11
Posts: 354
Ok, I'm confused, IMO the tt bikes look damn cooler than a standard road bike, but that aside, surely if the tt bike is built for speed then why not adopt all its attributes to road bikes. I guess you are going to tell me tt bikes have a disadvantage, but what is it?
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Can't ride in a group safely, less comfy on longer rides...0
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As above, and also don't handle as well and the forward seated postion means great power on the flats but can't move back on climbs for best power0
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iPete wrote:less comfy on longer rides...
It is if its set up correctly.
But its not so good for climbing and tends to be less stable and less easy to steer and control as the gears and brakes are not within reach of each other.0 -
How to people manage 100mile TT's and long disatance Triathlon?iPete wrote:Can't ride in a group safely, less comfy on longer rides...0 -
They manage being uncomfortable.T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
How to people manage 100mile TT's and long disatance Triathlon?iPete wrote:Can't ride in a group safely, less comfy on longer rides...
If you're racing then you endure with the discomfort. Holding a time trial position is not easy.0 -
16mm wrote:
They manage being uncomfortable.T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
How to people manage 100mile TT's and long disatance Triathlon?iPete wrote:Can't ride in a group safely, less comfy on longer rides...
If you're racing then you endure with the discomfort. Holding a time trial position is not easy.
Thats not strictly true, I've done several Ironmen and 24 hour TT events with no issues. If you have a good fit for your distance then it shouldn't be uncomfortable. You'd use a slightly less aggressive position for a 100 than you would a 25 but if its set up right then you should be able to stay aero without stressing the back or overloading your arms.0 -
16mm wrote:
They manage being uncomfortable.T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
How to people manage 100mile TT's and long disatance Triathlon?iPete wrote:Can't ride in a group safely, less comfy on longer rides...
If you're racing then you endure with the discomfort. Holding a time trial position is not easy.
Do you ek, there was no way I could ride a 12hr TT if that was the case.
A properly setup and fitted TT bike is no less comfortable than a road bike, but they aren't practical in non-race situations.0 -
Comfort isn't an issue with proper fit. The issue is there is no advantage to riding a TT bike in a group. Keep in mind that there is no drafting in TTs so the bikes are designed to be as aero as possible to minimize drag of not just the bike but the rider as well (thus the TT position). Because of this there are a lot of compromises that are detrimental on your everyday rides (such as twitchy steering due to shorter stems and questionable braking on aero brakes). Couple that with the fact that you can't safely ride in someone's wheel on a TT bike and it should be more than obvious why they have their place.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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Grill wrote:Comfort isn't an issue with proper fit. The issue is there is no advantage to riding a TT bike in a group. Keep in mind that there is no drafting in TTs so the bikes are designed to be as aero as possible to minimize drag of not just the bike but the rider as well (thus the TT position). Because of this there are a lot of compromises that are detrimental on your everyday rides (such as twitchy steering due to shorter stems and questionable braking on aero brakes). Couple that with the fact that you can't safely ride in someone's wheel on a TT bike and it should be more than obvious why they have their place.
Thanks for a good answer, now tell me why the hell anybody would want a fixed rear wheel?0 -
boogi11 wrote:Grill wrote:Comfort isn't an issue with proper fit. The issue is there is no advantage to riding a TT bike in a group. Keep in mind that there is no drafting in TTs so the bikes are designed to be as aero as possible to minimize drag of not just the bike but the rider as well (thus the TT position). Because of this there are a lot of compromises that are detrimental on your everyday rides (such as twitchy steering due to shorter stems and questionable braking on aero brakes). Couple that with the fact that you can't safely ride in someone's wheel on a TT bike and it should be more than obvious why they have their place.
Thanks for a good answer, now tell me why the hell anybody would want a fixed rear wheel?
Fixies are cheap, easy to maintain, you can take them on the velo. They're 'trendy', challenging, perform tricks without choking on gear cables and so on.0 -
Cervelo is one manufacturer that makes what some call 'aero road bikes' - which resemble TT bikes in some aspects - but then again most if not all modern carbon road frames are built with aerodynamics in mind as it's one of the main reasons to use the material.
Other than that, the handling is a problem, due to the rider position and the disc wheels. Watch time trials and you'll see why. I would not want to ride in traffic with speed freaks that not only have poor maneuverability but are less close to the brakes!0 -
Simon Masterson wrote:Cervelo is one manufacturer that makes what some call 'aero road bikes' - which resemble TT bikes in some aspects -
Only the aero foil type profile of the tubing is about all they share. The geometry of a tt vs road bike is vastly different and that's the key difference between the two as the rider makes up over 80% of the wind resistance it's best to minimise the frontal area without unduly compromising power output.
Also how does a disc wheel affect handling? A rear disc even on a windy day makes little difference and you can't have a disc on the front. A deeper wheel on the front will catch the wind but that will happen if you fit it to a road bike too0 -
The profile of the tubing is about all I had in mind.
But certainly I have read (having never used them) that disc wheels are adversely affected by crosswinds. I'm intrigued that it's not the case in your experience, as it doesn't sound implausible to me...0 -
T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
How to people manage 100mile TT's and long disatance Triathlon?iPete wrote:Can't ride in a group safely, less comfy on longer rides...
I said less comfy, not un-ride-able! but it is subjective and dependant on fit.
Having done long distance tri on a roadie with bars, it wasn't so bad, on race day you just get on with it. I'd never do a 112 mile training ride on tri bars for 6 hours.boogi11 wrote:Thanks for a good answer, now tell me why the hell anybody would want a fixed rear wheel?
cos they are bloody great fun.0 -
Simon Masterson wrote:But certainly I have read (having never used them) that disc wheels are adversely affected by crosswinds. I'm intrigued that it's not the case in your experience, as it doesn't sound implausible to me...
You don't steer with a rear disc so it shouldn't really affect you. Living in Norfolk I've had my fair share of gusty time trials. In the TT world the general consensus seems to be that the only time the weather is too bad to use a rear disc then it is too bad to ride at all. This is backed up by the Q&A section of the HED website:Q: Can I use a disc wheel even when it’s really windy?
There are lots of opinions on the use of disc wheels when it is really windy but our opinion is that it is the best/quickest choice is to use a disc wheel in all conditions. The only time a disc wheel wouldn’t be suitable is when the wind is so strong that you wouldn’t be able to ride your bike.
Our main reason for saying this is that for road cycling the disc is only ever used as a rear wheel. When the wind hits the rear wheel the negative handling consequences are far, far less pronounced than for a front wheel. This is mainly down to two reasons. The first reason is that a greater percentage of the riders weight is over the back wheel. The result is that the rear wheel seems to be slightly more “planted” to the road. The second and probably more important reason is that the back wheel is fixed in one position on the bike as opposed to being fixed to a pivot as the front wheel is. The front wheel is affected by cross winds much more because the wheel pivots around the fork so can be thrown off line a lot easier than the rear wheel."0 -
It's good that you mentioned bike fit after actual TT'ers told you discomfort was nonsense.iPete wrote:T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
How to people manage 100mile TT's and long disatance Triathlon?iPete wrote:Can't ride in a group safely, less comfy on longer rides...
I said less comfy, not un-ride-able! but it is subjective and dependant on fit.
Having done long distance tri on a roadie with bars, it wasn't so bad, on race day you just get on with it. I'd never do a 112 mile training ride on tri bars for 6 hours.0 -
iPete wrote:T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
How to people manage 100mile TT's and long disatance Triathlon?iPete wrote:Can't ride in a group safely, less comfy on longer rides...
I said less comfy, not un-ride-able! but it is subjective and dependant on fit.
Having done long distance tri on a roadie with bars, it wasn't so bad, on race day you just get on with it. I'd never do a 112 mile training ride on tri bars for 6 hours.boogi11 wrote:Thanks for a good answer, now tell me why the hell anybody would want a fixed rear wheel?
cos they are bloody great fun.
But why, I swear at hill with a gradient of more than 2% , why would a bike with no gears be more fun, Are the like bid bmx's0 -
Most TT bikes have gears, usually only track bikes that are fixed gear.0
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boogi11 wrote:But why, I swear at hill with a gradient of more than 2% , why would a bike with no gears be more fun, Are the like bid bmx's
Different strokes for different folks. A good friend of mine rides fixed and he absolutely canes me everywhere. We've done 100+ milers that have taken in climbs like Rhigos and the Bwlch and I'm not even close. He has a ridiculous amount of KOMs and he's strong as hell. Why does he ride fixed? Because he likes it. Nothing wrong with that.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
boogi11 wrote:But why, I swear at hill with a gradient of more than 2% , why would a bike with no gears be more fun, Are the like bid bmx's
It is hard to put your finger on one thing but it is the simplicity, the way you carry momentum and that instant connection with the wheel when you put the power down. After going fixed my roadie felt sluggish, slow off the line and power sapping. When you find a hill you have to attack or grind to a halt. Put in my best hill climbs on the fixed but it is geared for the flats!0 -
Also, if you're doing some bit climbs you can just stick a smaller chainring or bigger sprocket on it.
Has anyone used the Sturmey Archer 3 speed fixed hub?0 -
JamesB5446 wrote:Also, if you're doing some bit climbs you can just stick a smaller chainring or bigger sprocket on it.
Has anyone used the Sturmey Archer 3 speed fixed hub?
That's a big faux pas...English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
iPete wrote:I said less comfy, not un-ride-able! but it is subjective and dependant on fit.
Having done long distance tri on a roadie with bars, it wasn't so bad, on race day you just get on with it. I'd never do a 112 mile training ride on tri bars for 6 hours.
Unless you're going for a really extreme position a TT bike is no less comfy that a road bike. A key point with a TT bike is that the geometry allows you to adopt a position where a good proportion of your weight is supported through your skeletal structure rather than loading the muscles in the arms and shoulders.
A road bike with clip-ons just doesn't cut it. Seat angle is too shallow, you're way too stretched out, and your hip angle is closed. So your neck and back get fucked. You can't compare a road bike with clip-ons to a time trial bike.0 -
Is it?Grill wrote:JamesB5446 wrote:Also, if you're doing some bit climbs you can just stick a smaller chainring or bigger sprocket on it.
Has anyone used the Sturmey Archer 3 speed fixed hub?
That's a big faux pas...0 -
It is for my buddy. He's never changed from his 44 x 16 just to make hills easier.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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danowat wrote:16mm wrote:
They manage being uncomfortable.T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
How to people manage 100mile TT's and long disatance Triathlon?iPete wrote:Can't ride in a group safely, less comfy on longer rides...
If you're racing then you endure with the discomfort. Holding a time trial position is not easy.
Do you ek, there was no way I could ride a 12hr TT if that was the case.
A properly setup and fitted TT bike is no less comfortable than a road bike, but they aren't practical in non-race situations.
OK, so you can get a comfortable fit on a TT bike, but it's not necessarity an aero fit.
This is a pro talking about a TT position: from http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/ju ... ge-19-live
"Time trials are about maintaining a constant pace, like a continuous hum. But they are also about pain, an agonising heat you feel in your stomach, a burning that affects your breathing. You get into a rhythm, and when the pain comes, you tunnel into it, exploring it to the bitter end.
"What with the discomfort and the heat some riders cross the finish line and throw their helmet down. I don't even think about it: it's all part of the same ache. From top to bottom, front to back, I gather it into a smooth ball of pain that spins around in my mind until the time trial is over – pain in my muscles, a burning in the sole of my feet, an aching in my wrists, a stabbing in my neck from holding my head in one position. There isn't a second to relax and stretch, or move my hands. I have to go on in the same position. If I want to spit, I do it by twisting my mouth sideways – tuh! – to avoid moving my head. I fix my eyes on an arbitrary landmark – a tree, a point on a curve – and I say, Until I get there, I'm not going to change position. And before I get there, I fix another point …"
Colombian rider Victor Hugo Peña's description of a time trial in Matt Rendell's book A Significant Other has to be one the best descriptions ever committed to print of the mental and physical challenge of the time trial. Bradley Wiggins may have more than two minutes of lead to play with, but that doesn't mean he'll escape one last hour of agony today.0 -
If you kept the same type of composure, position, focus, and power as he's describing on a road bike (or a tricycle for that matter) it would be just as painful. It has nothing to do with the relative comfort of a TT bike.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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A lot of that pain is just pushing yourself to the absolute limit, the rest he refers to about the position being painful would be the same on a road bike if you we're to hold exactly the same position for an hour whilst applying max output. A hybrid would be uncomfortable if you got into as aerodynamic position as possible and then didn't move whilst burying yourself for an hour.
As an aside, Do you own and race a TT bike?0 -
That's not a huge gear but would be pretty tough going on certain hills. What sort of % and length are we talking about?Grill wrote:It is for my buddy. He's never changed from his 44 x 16 just to make hills easier.0
