Windows 8

mfin

Well, I have to work with OSs and that, so installed Windows 8 today.

First experiences??? Well, no sound on the Dell Laptop even though it thinks there is, first OS install to not give me sound from a straight install...

No startbar, as many people know, so 5dollars on Stardock's Start8 to get it back.

The metro tiled interface is so frustrating, the whole point in those kinds of interfaces is that they're intuitive and simple. Neither me or my daughter once IE had gone to a webpage and the URL bar had disappeared could work out how to get the URL bar back up!! Im sure its simple, but we tried all the things we felt we're obvious with no luck at all!!!

An awful first experience of the first hour or so so far!!

chrisaonabike

I've had it on a VM for a while. Mostly been trying to avoid it - it just seems to be a huge non-intuitive learning curve on the desktop, though I expect it's Ok on mobile.

Unlike going to 7 from XP - a delight in every respect IIRC.

Apparently the keyboard shortcuts make things a lot easier, but I haven't started to get my head round those yet. I sympathise with all the oldies (such as my dad) who have finally got the hang of 7, but for whom 8 will just be a world of pain.

mfin

Yeah, its gotta be the most unintuitive OS yet... the thing is, there's people who know windows already for years and then you can consider someone who's never really used windows, and I can't see how either party can get their head round it... Im sure in a good few hours I'll suss absolutely everything, but why the learning curve, its ridiculous. MS are incredible, my Mum or Dad would never be able to switch to this!!

graham.

Sounds a nightmare for folks like me who know bugger all about these things!
I'm still on XP but Iv'e just bought an upgrade for some software I use (Lightroom) and it's not compatable with my outdated OS. Presumably I can still get Windows 7 ?
Or perhaps I should take it as a warning and just get a new 'pooter! :roll:

mfin

Well by GUT reaction at the moment is that people who aren't 'as computery' are going to be in a worse position than with other versions of Windows. There's an interesting video of a retired chap being put in front of it and you can watch him struggling.

Now, to be honest, I saw that video BEFORE I loaded mine, and I still would have been struck by how awkward it is. My 13year daughter is very computer savvy and very academic, she was with me when I installed it and she was there from the first seconds it was installed.... I asked her on multiple occasions 'am I being stupid' and handed the laptop to her to try and do each thing I was trying to do. Now, you'd expect someone who's 13 who's in the top 2 or 3 kids in her year in Maths and IT to just figure things out in seconds and say 'duuuuhh'? Nope. She was saying how rubbish it was and saying things like 'well, it probably is easy but you don't know how to do it!'. (and thats with me too who has grown up with computers and works with computers.)

'Well, it probably is easy but you don't know how to do it' actually means 'the simple tasks you want to do should be obvious how to do and are in fact the pure opposite'.

The other thing is the sheer amount of clicking around you have to do to do something. If you're not into ALT f4 or that phrase means nothing to you then shutting down (for example) used to be:

1. Click on Start
2. Click on Shutdown
(which is laughable that you click on a word like 'start' to select something that really means 'stop' !!)

...anyway, Im in Windows8 desktop, and it looks windowsy, but there isn't even a start bar, so this is how they want me to shut it down....

1. Roll the mouse up into the top right of the screen until it wont go any further and a menu appears which is glued to the right of the screen, 2cms wide, and stretched all the way to the bottom of the screen.
2. Of the 5 icons in that menu (which aren't labelled until you hover mouse over one), select the bottom Icon called Settings, note, you've moved your mouse all the way to the bottom, a long way aaaaagain.
3. Another Menu appears on the right called Settings and on the bottom is an Icon called 'Power', hover that and you can click on 'Shutdown' (or Restart etc).

Aaaaaaanyway.... if WIndows 8 is used on a Tablet it Miiiiight be alright, Id have to witness it to comment though.

I know my workings of Windows 8 will all suss out but it is awful, I can't see how an older person or more casual user would suss it out for use on a standard Desktop or Laptop. I swear on my life that my Dad who's retired but loves a bit of technology... if I changed his PC from Windows7 to Windows8 he'd be lost, absolutely lost. Its so difficult to explain...

You get things like Skype right? Download Windows 8 Skype, install it, well, it exists in the Metro interface NOT in the desktop! So you have to have 'a bit of Metro, and a bit of Desktop on screen when in use or be 'in Metro'. I got round it. How?? I thought, this is MENTAL, searched around and found 'Skype for Desktop' is available, working just like the old Version, had to search for it. (remember Skype is owned by Microsoft now, so they'll f**k anything up).

Most people will be FAR BETTER OFF sticking to Windows7 is my guess.

mfin

Graham. wrote:

Sounds a nightmare for folks like me who know bugger all about these things!
I'm still on XP but Iv'e just bought an upgrade for some software I use (Lightroom) and it's not compatable with my outdated OS. Presumably I can still get Windows 7 ?
Or perhaps I should take it as a warning and just get a new 'pooter! :roll:

...a direct reply to add to my rant...

Yeah, you can still get Windows 7, and its NOT going to scare the hell out of you coming from XP, not one bit.

My suggestion with Windows 8 to anyone is see if a friend can plonk you in front of it and leave the room, or see if you can play with it in a shop but NEVER have any assistance. ...while you're there, just try a few things, like:

Getting between Metro and Desktop Interfaces
Launch Wordpad or Notepad
Browse the net in IE in Metro, go to a website, then try type in another URL
Get to the Control Panel in Desktop

...now, all these things are possible, and you might be better than me at it, but have a go, with no help, seeing as you're used to Windows XP we'll assume you'll have no problem?

solosuperia

Why pay good money for a Windows system............
When there is a
Solid, Free, Virus Free, Intuitive............I could spout some more

Unbuntu a Linux based operating system

I know the perception is that Linux is for geeks. On my recommendation, a number of people the antithesis of computer literate have installed it ...... And they swear by it.

I'm getting off my soapbox and going for a lie down now!

craker

XP works, why change? We've just got our first tablet (Nexus 7) and it's a total reinvention of computers in the domestic space - we love it. Since I'm an app. developer on Windows we are all windows users at work (XP users being upgraded to Win 7 as machines get old - there's little interest in Win8 ). I imagine people who buy our product (PCB design software) aren't too bothered in the underlying OS, I don't suppose our UI has changed much since the first Windows NT version all those years ago.

Jez mon

From what I've seen Windows 8 is really designed around a touch interface. Having used apps on my old non-touch blackberry, which were designed for a touch interface, I can't imagine it's much fun.

The new microsoft tablets look interesting though.

daviesee

.....#reads this on a Macbook Pro and runs away laughing#.......

Peddle Up!

If you use a Microsoft OS just stick to the tried route of buying every alternate one.

XP - great
Vista - dog
Windows 7 - great
Windows 8 - dog

Peddle Up!

Further thoughts...

Tablet format computers are great for casual browsing, watching a video etc., but for serious work you need a desktop or a "proper" laptop. Trying to use a tablet to construct and debug a large spreadsheet for example is like trying to service your bike with a hammer while wearing oven gloves.

mfin

I agree the tablet Windows 8 might be alright.

I use Mac's for everything that's 'normal'... ie office activities, email, the web...

But for working on I need Visual Studio and SQL Server alongside a bunch of chosen Editors, Adobe Suite etc etc, so I have no choice but windows of some kind.

Windows 7 is fine for that.

I have to install Windows 8 on another machine to keep up to date with app testing, BUT, I should be able to work everything on one machine on Windows 8, but Windows 8 is hardly making a good impression on me.

Out of interest my Dad's just had 30mins on it and he can't believe it, couldn't do a thing, he said "what are they doing, what are they thinking".

Once Id installed Stardock Start8 on, it becomes far more normal, booting into Desktop mode with a Start Bar, but things like having to KNOW to go looking for Skype for Desktop App rather than Skype for Windows 8 which is a Metro App is ridiculous.

I sugges anyone trying it tries Start8.

chrisaonabike

mfin wrote:

But for working on I need Visual Studio

Don't even get me started on VS12... :roll:

mfin

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

mfin wrote:

But for working on I need Visual Studio

Don't even get me started on VS12... :roll:

Luckily I dont have to get heavily into it, only the html coding of controls and pages. But I have to run it for all the source control, otherwise Id rather be in a text editor!!

RDW

SoloSuperia wrote:

Unbuntu a Linux based operating system

Even Ubuntu (with Unity) seems to have become a victim of the GUI reinvention disease lately - had to install the MATE desktop at work to avoid throwing things at the screen. Mint has a version with MATE included, so that might be my first choice in future. If someone inflicts Windows 8 on me, I think the first thing I install will be this:

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/

It restores the start button and allows booting straight to the classic desktop.

briantrumpet

daviesee wrote:

.....#reads this on a Macbook Pro and runs away laughing#.......

Reads this on a Google Nexus 7 and runs away laughing, with several £100s in my pocket.

daviesee

briantrumpet wrote:

daviesee wrote:

.....#reads this on a Macbook Pro and runs away laughing#.......

Reads this on a Google Nexus 7 and runs away laughing, with several £100s in my pocket.

Ah but you had to get your pretty screen covered in paw prints to write the reply instead of having the luxury of a full sized keyboard.

briantrumpet

daviesee wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

daviesee wrote:

.....#reads this on a Macbook Pro and runs away laughing#.......

Reads this on a Google Nexus 7 and runs away laughing, with several £100s in my pocket.

Ah but you had to get your pretty screen covered in paw prints to write the reply instead of having the luxury of a full sized keyboard.

With the difference in price, I can afford to pay the butler to polish the screen, thanks.

daviesee

briantrumpet wrote:

With the difference in price, I can afford to pay the butler to polish the screen, thanks.

Just so long as he is not polishing anything else.

Zendog1

I installed it yesterday (admittedly on a £14.99 deal) and cannot see what you are all bitching about.

The start button now goes to a screen with tiles on it rather than a list. Big deal - this takes about 5 minutes to get used to and looks rather good.

Various significant improvements under the bonnet including native antivirus. Magic - Mc (halk spit) Fee is hopefully history.

Daz555

Needs a touch screen to really shine though but it will do on my laptop for now. I like it a lot. Easier than ever to find everything you need.

Good tip which many have missed is that Windows 8 comes with a dynamic search facility. To find just about anything you just need to start typing its name and a dynamic list begins to populate which narrows as you continue to type - works from everything from apps like Word to stuff like Control Panel.

Peddle Up!

Daz555 wrote:

Good tip which many have missed is that Windows 8 comes with a dynamic search facility.

Er, doesn't Windows 7 have this?

alihisgreat

Peddle Up! wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

Good tip which many have missed is that Windows 8 comes with a dynamic search facility.

Er, doesn't Windows 7 have this?

Yes

Thats why he was finding it harder to find stuff in Windows 7.. didn't realise you could search for it :roll:

willhub

I'm on Windows 7, I've used Windows 8 for a good few months, and I used it just like Windows 7, so is it really worth the minimal speed increases + awkward Metro? NOPE.

Daz555

Peddle Up! wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

Good tip which many have missed is that Windows 8 comes with a dynamic search facility.

Er, doesn't Windows 7 have this?

Indeed it does. Window 8 implementation is much nicer though.

mfin

Daz555 wrote:

Good tip which many have missed is that Windows 8 comes with a dynamic search facility. To find just about anything you just need to start typing its name and a dynamic list begins to populate which narrows as you continue to type - works from everything from apps like Word to stuff like Control Panel.

That's great, so finding things that you already knew how to find just by clicking on them in Windows 7 you can now start typing what you want instead because its either a) hard to find in Windows 8, or b) too many extra clicks away to be convenient.

Great for people trying to help a user find something if you're providing tech support, but not for everyday getting around.

I've no doubt in a consumer market Windows 8 is okay, the Surface will probably be good, but for people who work on computers and will continue to work in desktop apps its a pain. More Metro apps will carve a future but the co-existence of Metro and Desktop doesn't increase productivity, if anything productivity will take a hit.

Two year till XP is no longer supported at all by Microsoft, so corporates are in the midst of very costly moves across to a new version, and plenty of talk is of them heading to windows 7, although the Network side of things has made some jumps in Windows 8.

Personally I can't see who Windows8 really benefits in a work environment at all, in fact, it has a good few disadvantages. Luckily Metro can be avoided and registry tweaks and third party programs can bring the start bar back and you can force it to a Windows 7 desktop experience without ever needing to see Metro. Metro brings nothing that's needed, only things that could be nice for some people in the consumer market.

Daz555

mfin wrote:

I've no doubt in a consumer market Windows 8 is okay, the Surface will probably be good, but for people who work on computers and will continue to work in desktop apps its a pain. More Metro apps will carve a future but the co-existence of Metro and Desktop doesn't increase productivity, if anything productivity will take a hit.

I'm an IT Pro and would have no problem at all with having Windows 8 on my work desktop. It is single button press to move between modern ui and the explorer desktop. Really no hassle at all and I don't buy the suggestion that it will hit productivity at all. I would suggest perhaps the opposite - even a simple feature like Live Tiles could be implemented to great effect in a corporate environment and Windows To Go has loads of potential for business also - builds for engineers/contractors and of course the growing BYOD trend. But yeah - generally speaking I'll accept that metro/modern ui really doesn't have that much to offer the corporate at this moment in time - primarily because 100% of their apps will be legacy Windows.

For IT geeks like me there are enough changes under the hood to keep me interested - the proper type 1 hypervisor is a biggie for me - allowing me to build virtual servers on my desktop/laptop and then migrate to server-side. I will also be able to export servers onto my desktop for stuff like testing and troubleshooting or for my own training purposes. And most importantly it is all included with the Windows 8 licence.

As it happens we are well along the way to finalising our Windows 7 build in my company and will be rolling out to 130,000+ desktops and laptops starting early 2013 so Windows 8 will probably be skipped for mass deployment.

mfin

Corporate IT environments and applications vary a lot though yeah, OSs like windows are used in such a variety of ways, people use their computers so so differently. There certainly are scenarios where productivity will take a hit, maybe that hit will be temporary, but it will be there.

Touch screens in Metro will help, like on laptops, but for me for instance, with two 27" monitors, even if they were touchscreen Im not gonna get up out of my chair to reach the top of a monitor with my finger to pull an app all the way to bottom etc etc... and the mouse control of Metro is not ideal is it? lots of long mouse journeys, or shortcut keying everything to get around that... hmmm.... anyway, like I said, I'll hack it about and never see Metro.

Its interesting where Windows8 might take us, but its defintely a hotch-potch at the moment, I expect Windows9 or 10 will be when things have truly changed and for the right reasons.

Mikey23

Overall I like it. Very much like having two desktop experiences running side by side which is weird but seems very much quicker running. My upgrade from 7 was straightforward so did missus' laptop from vista which was much more problematical. She lost a lot of apps and settings and it was a pain to get it all back and her happy again... Now having some issues with Firefox and thunderbird which seems to keep going AWOL and have had to sort out a stuck mouse.

Good job I have my ipad....