Doping in amateur cycling - BBC

Kirsteen

Hello,
5 Live Investigates at the BBC is trying it find out if doping is an issue in amateur cycling.
We have been told a lot amateur cyclists in the past took drugs used to treat asthma and sometimes amphetamines.
If you can tell us whether or not this is happening now then I’d love to hear from you. Our conversation would be in confidence and for research purposes only. I’m just trying to find out if doping in amateur cycling is something I should spend time looking into or if it no longer happens.
My direct line is 020 3614 0956 and my email is kirsteen.knight@bbc.co.uk
If you are concerned that I am who I say I am please Google “Kirsteen Knight” + BBC or just Goggle my email address. You will see a small trail where I have looked for people to help me with stories in the past.
Best wishes and thanks for your help.
Kirsteen.

Herbsman

Think about it.

Why would any sane human being go out of their way to aquire illegal drugs, and take a serious risk with their health, for so little reward? Considering how much money people spend on bikes, kit, travel etc the prize money is negligible. You are looking at £50-70 for winning a decent road race. Who is going to risk having a heart attack for such a meagre sum?

Even if there was anyone out there pitiful enough to cheat in amateur races, how would anyone else (i.e. myself) know about it? Nobody would risk the shame of being caught doing something so pathetic, losing respect and being shunned by what is a tight-knit community.

Amateur racing is a very social sport; people do it for no other reason that they love doing it, and there is a mutual respect between the people who share that love. You would have to be a complete sociopath (as well as being incapable of making rational, logical decisions) to even consider doping as an option.

If it did happen in any race that I was involved in, it wouldn't even be worth worrying about for me. I would be pissed off that someone cheated, but I wouldn't be losing anything significant. This is not like professional racing where my ability to pay my bills depends on my race results. Nobody is under any pressure to win, nobody will get 'relegated' if they don't get enough points, we don't need to secure employment contracts.

Amateur racing is competetive but it's on a completely different scale to professional racing. It's just a game, for fun, for the love of it. There is absolutely no incentive to cheat. You would have to have some serious mental issues to even consider doing so.

Wouldn't your time and effort be better used investigating professional football or something? We know professional cycling has the strictest anti-doping measures in place, but what about other professional sports? How often do other professional athletes get tested? Are they subject to the same 'whearabouts' system as cyclists?

SwainsL

The reason pros dope is because placing in a race determines their livelihood. If they don't place, they won't get any bonuses, which is what most riders rely on. Pro cyclists aren't rich people, with the exception of some. Desperation leads to ridiculous things. However if you look at football, the players can sit on the bench all day long, but still get their hefty pay. Arguably, they get more than what they give. Now you see why doping may be more prevalent in pro cycling.

Amateur racing is considered a bit of 'fun'. Nobody races so that they can support their family. Far more money is put into the equipment we buy to compete with, travel, time and the entry fee's which are paid to enter these races. You can't make a living out of it. There is no reason why someone would go to extreme lengths of doping to win an amateur race. Risking their health, potentially ruining their future in cycling and the trust of their friends and family. Just to have a better chance at winning a race which will earn them peanuts. It simply makes no sense.

Tom Butcher

I can't see her finding anything in amateur cycling - semi-pro there may be some stuff goes on - Premier Calendar type level - but I've never really heard rumours of it being at all common in true amateur racing. I should add when I say it may go on at Prem Calendar level I really mean I have no idea if it does - not that I assume it does.

From what I've heard I think it's more common in sports where the competitors do a lot of weights to put on muscle bulk.

jgsi

Yup.. the degree of drug misuse in amateur racing is absolutely miniscule in comparision to its use in low level body building for instance.
2 young men striving to make a career in the fitness industry openly admitted steroid use to me this year.. thats sad.

JackPozzi

It does happen, try googling "Dan Staite" for an example. I'd be interested to know how common it is, I've heard some people insinuating it's more common than I'd like to think, although without offering any proof or naming names. does make you wonder though, especially with the lack of testing at amateur level.

Tom Butcher

I reckon 90% of us remember Dan Staite - because his case was so unusual.

Re. the OPs post - a lot of cyclists probably do take asthma meds because cycling tends to show up exercise induced asthma - that's not doping though is it. As for taking speed - well no doubt some do take it recreationally and if you do that I suppose you might have a dab of it for a race - like you might for any sport - when I've done signing on etc I've never noticed anything sus in any of the riders though. I reckon if a significant minority were speeding it'd be pretty obvious.

Rodrego Hernandez

It happens. More than you would think.

Much more.

Steroids are easy to get hold of, as are amphetamines. Cortisone is prescribed all too readily too.

Herbsman

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

It happens. More than you would think.

Much more.

Steroids are easy to get hold of, as are amphetamines. Cortisone is prescribed all too readily too.

Evidence?

charlie_potatoes

Herbsman wrote:

Wouldn't your time and effort be better used investigating professional football or something? We know professional cycling has the strictest anti-doping measures in place, but what about other professional sports? How often do other professional athletes get tested? Are they subject to the same 'whearabouts' system as cyclists?

+1
We already know the lengths that many of the top professional footballers will cheat just to get a free kick. Is it too far removed to imagine that some might dope?

negativelycra

I listened to the black eyed peas whilst trying to get further up the leaderboard on Strava last week. Surely you couldn't get any more dope or ameteaur than that. Can I be on telly?

cougie

I'm sure there will be a few ultra competitive Cash Rich, Time Poor cyclists trying to get ahead. I really cant see it being significant though. Proper doping is very expensive. You might get a few people trying cheaper drugs - but just a handful. The cash rewards in amateur cycling arent there.

Football though - there is a tin of worms. Look into Puerto - how come it was just the cyclists names that came out. Who paid to make the others go away ?

sub55

First thing i feel that i ought to point out to the OPer , ( as i mentioned in the other thread) is that the vast majority of substances on the prohibited list are not illegal drugs , although there are some obviously.
Some you need a prescription , some you can buy over the counter and the whole subject is difficult to comprehend to the layman in the street. Who happens to ride a bike. Strongly suspect if you took a random selection of people from both a bbc office and a amateur bike race , more people from the office would fail the test . Purely because the cyclist knows theoretically they could be subject to a test and are so paranoid about it , they wont take any prescribed medication , even when they probably should for their own health reasons.
Now if i was a journalist looking to find a story on the subject , would probably look at rugby league , both amateur and profession. The other favourite is professional golf, believe it or not. They are simply not tested.
Also theres big money available.

Monty Dog

Football, tennis and rugby is you want a drugs in sport story. Their governing bodies have got is sussed - don't test anyone = no positives = clean sport!
I've been bike racing for over 25 years and never seen anything suspicious.
If the OP wants another angle, find out about the Spanish footballers, tennis players, athletes and motorsports people who were clients of Dr Fuentes but whose names never got released because the presiding magistrate has contacts with Real Madrid.

Herbsman

Monty Dog wrote:

Football, tennis and rugby is you want a drugs in sport story. Their governing bodies have got is sussed - don't test anyone = no positives = clean sport!
I've been bike racing for over 25 years and never seen anything suspicious.
If the OP wants another angle, find out about the Spanish footballers, tennis players, athletes and motorsports people who were clients of Dr Fuentes but whose names never got released because the presiding magistrate has contacts with Real Madrid.

Nah, they'd have to do some real work then, instead of getting people on cycling forums to do it for them.

OffTheBackAdam

I'd say there'd be a lot of +ve tests, got a cold? How many otc cold remedies contain banned substances?
Now, if we're looking at intentional taking of drugs with a view to really enhancing performance, then who knows?
I'd agree with Monty, if you're after a real story, dig into tennis & football. Rumours abounded of stars in those sports being amongst Fuente's clients in Operation Puerto.

mattshrops

What happened - did cycling get popular this year or something?

Jesus - professional journalists eh? What we all need to remember is TV journalists come from the same gene pool as the scum who produce our national newspapers.

As others have said DO SOME REAL JOURNALISM- Take a look at the sports that never test positive. Are you really naive enough to believe those sports are clean? Or just lazy? :roll:

LegendLust

Well I cane the caffeine - Am I a doper?

Rodrego Hernandez

LegendLust wrote:

Well I cane the caffeine - Am I a doper?

Read the WADA banned list. Remember, taking something on the banned list is cheating, deliberate or not.

Rushmore

I had a mate who took testosterone pills...

he threw his bike in a bush because he got angry with it... LOL

TheEnglishman

Kirsteen wrote:

....
We have been told a lot amateur cyclists in the past took drugs used to treat asthma a...

I'm sure there's some professional cyclists who take drugs to treat their asthma right now....

Oh good lord try researching a little bit first. Asthma drugs are not banned, per se, even the steroids used to treat asthma are ok now - they're not even on the banned list anymore. Look at the non-issues certain professional footballers have with regulating their asthma. Or cyclists or runners or... Try and google 'Therapeutic Use Exemptions' before making sweeping statements!

If you come across as not having done your homework you'll get eaten up and spat out - and not taken seriously......

Yours

An Asthma sufferer and (onetime) athlete

sub55

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Well I cane the caffeine - Am I a doper?

Read the WADA banned list. Remember, taking something on the banned list is cheating, deliberate or not.

caffeine is not on the band list

blackhands

TheEnglishman wrote:

Kirsteen wrote:

....
We have been told a lot amateur cyclists in the past took drugs used to treat asthma a...

I'm sure there's some professional cyclists who take drugs to treat their asthma right now....

Oh good lord try researching a little bit first. Asthma drugs are not banned, per se, even the steroids used to treat asthma are ok now - they're not even on the banned list anymore. Look at the non-issues certain professional footballers have with regulating their asthma. Or cyclists or runners or... Try and google 'Therapeutic Use Exemptions' before making sweeping statements!

If you come across as not having done your homework you'll get eaten up and spat out - and not taken seriously......

Yours

An Asthma sufferer and (onetime) athlete

Dear Asthma sufferer and onetime athlete

If you read carefully what was said is that "in the past" asthma medications were used. Are you sure that "in the past" asthma medications were not on the banned list. I know for a fact that in the past top level amateur cyclists used TEUs to use such medication even though they didn't need it.

When TEUs were needed by all competitors I used an illegal substance (a masking agent) without a TEU and i know many people who used asthma medication without bothering with a TEU. (TEUs are now only required by riders on national lists and they will have been told of this).

SBezza

Do amateur racers takes drugs, yes they do, and to think that all the amateurs are riding clean is having your head in the sand.It might not be for money, they might just want to try and win and have the adulation by doing so, Dan Staite was one of those in reality. It might not be drugs like EPO, but I bet there are some that use other recreational drugs and the like, or others like asthma inhalers (without a TUE), hell some people don't even know what a TUE is and they race supposedly following the WADA code. Some asthma drugs are banned full stop with or without a TUE, for example clenbuterol.

There is just not enough testing at amateur level to find out who is on banned substances, so the question can never fully be answered.

Rodrego Hernandez

sub55 wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Well I cane the caffeine - Am I a doper?

Read the WADA banned list. Remember, taking something on the banned list is cheating, deliberate or not.

caffeine is not on the band list

There you go, not on the banned list, not doping or cheating.

Not hard to check is it?

Pross

I know of a couple of decent amateurs who got banned for using Ephedrine back in the 90s. They argued they were taken accidently in medication. I'm not sure how true this was but it appeared that they were getting targetted by the testers so I guess there were rumours going around.

Pross

mattshrops wrote:

What happened - did cycling get popular this year or something?

Jesus - professional journalists eh? What we all need to remember is TV journalists come from the same gene pool as the scum who produce our national newspapers.

As others have said DO SOME REAL JOURNALISM- Take a look at the sports that never test positive. Are you really naive enough to believe those sports are clean? Or just lazy? :roll:

Um, it's a researcher for a radio programme - do some proper reading

Pross

Here's the list of athletes / sportspeople currently banned by UKAD http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/current-violations/ Looking at that there are some far better targets for an expose of drugs in sport. I would start with rugby of both codes, steroid and HGH use are rife at amateur level and I have serious concerns at the top of the game.

Herbsman

Wow. Out of all those athletes, only one cyclist. It's a bit sad that I'm surprised by that.

ozzzyosborn206

there has been a few people in America who have tested positive at Sportives- admittedly they did have fairly big prizes but it goes to show people are willing to gain an upper hand anywhere, yes there probably is doping in amateur cycling as there is in many amateur sports, lots of people think of doping as blood transfusions and EPO because they are two of the most well known that big pros have been caught doing, but i am sure there are lots of less beneficial cheaper and less dangerous ways people may try to gain an advantage,

LegendLust

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

sub55 wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

Well I cane the caffeine - Am I a doper?

Read the WADA banned list. Remember, taking something on the banned list is cheating, deliberate or not.

caffeine is not on the band list

There you go, not on the banned list, not doping or cheating.

Not hard to check is it?

It is if you are over a certain limit >12mg per litre of urine