On One Lurcher 29er, maybe rigid?

sanchez89

Been looking at 29er frames this past few weeks. Really liking the Lurcher from on one. And I'm being strangely drawn towards the matching rigid carbon fork. I believe it would build into a decent weight xc mile basher. Need to improve my climbing ability and this would do me well.

However I'm really not sure about going rigid. The weight appeals, the loss of teeth and smashed wrists on anything that's not smooth dirt doesn't. Anyone riding rigid got any opinions they would like to share?? Someone riding this frame rigid would be superb also.

There is also the (cheaper) option of the Scandal. But after chatting to the guys at on one I believe the carbon lurcher will offer a more comfortable, compliant ride. Any truth to these claims??

So basically any scandal or lurcher riders can I have your feedback. Help me make my mind up!!

Just to add another dimension to this I'm also open to other suggests as long as the frame cost is below 500 and its fairly lightweight. ideally less than 4.5lbs.

passout

Big wheels, big tyres (very important) & a compliant ride - should be fine. Choice a finishing kit may also help - full carbon? Should be quick handling & super light...nice. I'd do it.....bit jealous.

Other options include sticking to a 26er & going rigid on a whippet. I only say that because I quite fancy it myself.

sanchez89

passout wrote:

Big wheels, big tyres (very important) & a compliant ride - should be fine. Choice a finishing kit may also help - full carbon? Should be quick handling & super light...nice. I'd do it.....bit jealous.

Other options include sticking to a 26er & going rigid on a whippet. I only say that because I quite fancy it myself.

Cheers buddy. I did look into normal 26 inch and it would be much cheaper and easier to get parts. But after riding a 29er I have to have one! I just loved the speed and grip the thing had. It was the first carbon bike I'd ridden aswell and that made me want a nice light build. If it gets me out more as its nice and easy to ride I might start to finally lose some weight.

Hence the reason for full rigid, no forks to ruin over a muddy and gritty cannock winter.

Do you think you would be up to the challenge of rigid riding? I do have my doubts

Torres

I run a steel inbred 29er with steel rigids.

I cope better than I thought I would on it; and you notice smaller bumps more than you would with suss, but unless they're huge they won't hinder you much.

My advice would be do it; if you feel it's not for you then I imagine the on-one forks will hold value well (judging by all their other forks) so you can sell them on and not lose much.

sanchez89

Torres wrote:

I run a steel inbred 29er with steel rigids.

I cope better than I thought I would on it; and you notice smaller bumps more than you would with suss, but unless they're huge they won't hinder you much.

My advice would be do it; if you feel it's not for you then I imagine the on-one forks will hold value well (judging by all their other forks) so you can sell them on and not lose much.

yeah i did think about selling the rigids if i didnt like them.

how do you find the inbred? have heard mixed reports about them.

Torres

Love it. It's no lightweight, but for £140 I think it's good value.

It seems more compliant then the 26" scandal it replaced and I can comfortably ride for 4+ hours on it without back/neck ache. If you were on a budget I'd recomend one, however I can see the weight saving appeal of carbon (just under 1kg saving.)

sanchez89

Torres wrote:

Love it. It's no lightweight, but for £140 I think it's good value.

It seems more compliant then the 26" scandal it replaced and I can comfortably ride for 4+ hours on it without back/neck ache. If you were on a budget I'd recomend one, however I can see the weight saving appeal of carbon (just under 1kg saving.)

yeah yeah. i did look into the inbred, but its just too heavy for me. i havent got endless cash to spend on it, so the lighter the frame the better really.

i have been reading about the Scandal and alot of people say it is fairly compliant for an alu frame.

but the carbon would be an even better ride. you feel that the steel frames have more flex in them??

Torres

Can't comment on the carbon; but personally I found myself getting lower back pain on the scandal on rides over 20 miles. Geo-wise I know the Inbred and Scandal are pretty similar, but I can't work out if the pain was caused by an overly stiff rear end or the fact I ran a longer stem (by 20mm) on the scandal.

There's nothing scientific going on here, I know they're two different bikes set up in different ways, but I find the Inbred more comfortable (this may just be me though.)

If you haven't got endless cash I'd maybe look at a lighter wheelset than a frame. You may find this makes a more significant difference to the way the bike feels. It's completely up to you though, I don't think there's really a right way to do it.

Northwind

I love riding rigid, just finished building myself a new one on a cheap Cotic Soda frame, really looking forward to getting out on it. But, it's definately not for everyone.

What I'd say is, don't do it just because it's light. Light is good but it's not worth losing suspension for. Do it because it's appropriate for your riding, or, do it because it isn't and it'll be a great laugh.

pilch

Got a couple of mates with lurchers, they ride rigid during the winter, my mrs has one but with suspension forks, they are great frames.

I have a scandal 29er, absolutely love it, just about to order another one with slot dropouts so I can run it rigid SS in the winter months, for the money I don't think you can go wrong. Both lurcher & scandal are the same geo, the lurcher is a bit lighter and a bit more compliant, but as above tyre choice/pressure makes a big difference to the ride.

passout

'Do you think you would be up to the challenge of rigid riding? I do have my doubts...'

I rode rigid (mainly the Lakes) two or three times a week between 1988 and 1996, and on a 26er! Its fine. On a carbon 29ers I think comfort won't be a massive issue. In all honesty I prefer the feel to FS or even a hardtail. Of course there is only one way to find out. If you hate it you'll be able to sell the rigid forks fine.

scale20

I'm currently on my second rigid 29er.

My first was a pink Scandal 29er with On Ones carbon forks. At first it was a harsh ride but you soon get used to it and adopt a new style of riding. The On One carbon forks have quite a lot of flex and take a lot out of the trail, you have to put some big tyres on though, I had kenda nevegal 2.2 tyres. That little bit more volume helps a lot.

I now have a Niner Air 9 with Niners carbon RDO forks and 15mm thru axle. Those carbon forks are a much better feel than the on One Ones but they are expensive. Those forks coupled with salsa carbon riser bars make it sweet up front.

The scandal I had was my first dip into the 29er world, I had to do it on the cheap that's why I went for the rigid forks and I didn't regret it. I couldn't really compare the scandal to any other 29er but as soon as I got it built up and riding it was amazing, the frame fit me fine, it flew on the hills and it ate up the singletrack.

You wont smash your teeth in or snap your wrists but it will take you a bit to get used to it. You certainly have to chose your lines on singletrack and you will learn what feels best for you as regards to holding onto the bars and bending your arms to compensate for no suspension. You will get some ass twitching moments on the trail, especially the fast singletrack bends, there is no damping there on the forks so your front wheel will get thrown off line by the bumps and rocks. That makes it that much more fun!

I would say go for the scandal, the frame is mint and if you decide you like it, some good upgrades will make into a very light and fast bike. If in time you want to get some sus forks up front they are cheap enough to find.

This was my scandal, I sold it to a mate and he loves it!



IMO 29in wheels suit HT's, very quick, stable and responsive on the fast stuff. I have just done 18 months on a Niner RIP 9 29er FS and I'm not sold on it, I found it sluggish, slow to respond and didn't want keep its lines. I didn't find Stans 29er rims up to much either, too much flex.

Anyway, go for it, Big volume tyre up front, carbon forks and a carbon riser if you can.

sanchez89

Wow so many replies. Wasn't expecting that. Ok.

Torres- I agree with what your saying regarding wheel weights, I would probably notice that more so I will look into that thanks. Did have a quick look at the superstar 29er wheels for 160 and they seem pretty decent. Not sure I could go lighter though without ending up with a silly flexy set.

Northwind- I don't know why rigid is appealing to me, yes the lighter weight would help, after riding the spesh 29er that was about 1.5kg lighter than my susser I felt like I was using less effort to get everywhere, fresher at the end of the ride so I could ride for longer. But running no bounce maybe I would ride for less due to being beaten up more!

Pilch- I think I remember reading your mrs bike the black/orange in the your bikes section. That was where I first saw the frame and got the idea planted for this build. Have you ridden her bike, I no its probably too small, so you could give a back to back comparision with your scandal. I asked the chaps at on one whether I would be able to tell the difference between scandal and lurcher will identical setups. They said the lurcher would feel better but I'm not sure I would notice??

Scale20- you got any pics of your scandal? If you built it on the cheap I would like to have a look at what components you were running to get an idea of what I could achieve.

scale20

Here are some pics.

Out of the box







Nearly finished pics.









Spec was all SLX drivetrain and brakes. The wheels were FSA XC-290 Niner Wheelset, brilliant wheels, very stiff.

The bars were the On One fleegle bars which I found nice to ride with but pretty harsh with the rigid forks.

For all that I paid £1100, that was back in Feb 2010.

Northwind

Lovely... I was on the lookout for a pink Scandal before I found my Soda, good choice!

Sanchez- it has some unexpected effects. Obviously lighter can be easier to climb, but not always, frinstance it's harder work to get a rigid up the last part of innerleithen's main climb than it is a hardtail, because it's so lumpy- the forks smooth things out a little. But at other times it's brilliant, like power assist.

On rough trails it can beat you up, but it's a different sort of beaten up if you know what I mean- I tend to get sore upper arms and on more challenging trails I use a lot more body movements so that's tiring too, and soaking impacts in the arms and legs is wearing. And frankly the brain has to work hardest of all. But tiredness is a big package of factors and the pedalling tiredness will usually be less- easier to climb, and lower descending speed means less pedalling on the downs. (and tbh, laughing out loud as you bounce through rock gardens is like medicine!)

Time for the picture I always post in rigid threads:



Jesse Wigman, racing the Fort William Endurance Downhill- 6 hours of the world cup route, on a fully rigid jump bike. He did 13 laps- most people didn't manage that on downhill bikes!

scale20

They can be hard work to ride but you soon overcome it and 'learn' again.

For me it has taken me back to when it began. I have had big hard hitting FS bikes and although they have their place you don't ride trails on them you just hit, smash and float over stuff. The Marin trail is local to me and IMO you have to ride that on a HT, it doesn't warrant a FS, you get so much fun and a mental workout from riding a rigid it's ace!

I can be just as fast on my rigid around trails as mates on their Big FS bikes. I remember when I first got my Scandal I went to Coed Y Brenin and did The Beast I was behind blokes on 5 to 6in FS bikes and itching to get past them. They are so quick and nimble its unbelievable.

sanchez89

scale20 wrote:

They can be hard work to ride but you soon overcome it and 'learn' again.

For me it has taken me back to when it began. I have had big hard hitting FS bikes and although they have their place you don't ride trails on them you just hit, smash and float over stuff. The Marin trail is local to me and IMO you have to ride that on a HT, it doesn't warrant a FS, you get so much fun and a mental workout from riding a rigid it's ace!

I can be just as fast on my rigid around trails as mates on their Big FS bikes. I remember when I first got my Scandal I went to Coed Y Brenin and did The Beast I was behind blokes on 5 to 6in FS bikes and itching to get past them. They are so quick and nimble its unbelievable.

cheers matey thanks for pics. did you find the scandal frame as compliant as im hearing? taking a little bit of sting from the trail. i dont like the look of those bars either, would probs try and get some carbon bars second hand or something.

scale20

I got the bars on the advice of on one and to be honest although they look mental they worked with the big wheel up front. They were pretty solid though and you knew you were rigid up front with them. If they did them in carbon I'd have them again.

I found the frame really good on the trail, the back end was fine, it's the same as any HT, the more you thrash it on the rough stuff them more it bounces about..

I would go for an 11-36 cassette for the 29er, makes it that little bit easier on the hills.

Chinley Churner

My winter bike is a Sanderson Life 69'er with a rigid On-One carbon forks... it's great on my local Dark Peak trails and I also regularly blast round Llandegla and CYB on it. I tend to run a fairly fat tyre up front. Ride loose, keep relaxed and you'll have a blast.... it's a hell of a lot plusher than a CX bike.

sanchez89

yeah gearing wise i was probably going to go for 2x10.

scandal is very appealing due to the frame price and the fact is has standard parts like threaded BB and clamp on front mech. but the lurcher is just as appealing as its carbon, lighter and looks pretty nice i think. just the pressfit BB92 and direct mount mech put me off. i was looking at the SLX groupo on merlin but i would have to get a different BB and front mech to run that on the lurcher. were as the scandal it would all fit.

still cant decide whether i should just say f*ck it and get the lurcher, its only a few couple of saturday morning o/time more expensive. anyone know the reliability is like on these new fangled press fit BB's??

ohh and the long cage rear mech would probably be a bit ghey, but if i broke it i could always get a shorter.

Thorjensen

Hey

Blowing life into an old tread :P

I'm in the process of building a Lurcher 19,5" with Reba RLT, XT+XTR and I've run into two small questions.

1. Is it normal that you can press the BB92 (RealWorldCycling/Enduroforkseals) into the frame with my bare hands. No need of tools what so ever, just greased up with TF2???

2. Do you on SHimano cranks run the 2,5mm spacer as adviced in the tech manual???

Best regards

Thor, Denmark

jdillon

I just built up a Lurcher fully rigid (On-One's fork) and singlespeed and have put about 70 miles on it so far. Getting to your questions:

1. I am not positive, but I believe no. I had the exact same issue with my frame, with both Shimano and E*13 bottom brackets. They will pretty much slide in with slight hand pressure. Accordingly they like to pop out with the cranks when you take them off, and the BB will likely develop a creek (mine already has). I believe this is a tolerance issue with the frame manufacturer. I am going to try putting some .001" stainless steel shim in the BB to fill up that extra space. I will hopefully have a report on how that goes by Wednesday or so.

2. Yes you do need that spacer. The bottom bracket shell on the Lurcher is 89.5mm (measured it myself) so the 2.5mm spacer will bring it out to 92mm.

*UPDATE: The shim worked for about 15 minutes of hard riding and then it was creaking worse than ever. I called Titus, who is the distributor for On-One here in the USA and explained that the BB shell was oversized to the point that the BB cups could be inserted and removed with finger pressure and mentioned how bad the creaking was. They are paying to ship the frame back and will send out a replacement. My brother ordered a Lurcher about a week after I got mine (his is 21" mine is 19.5") and it has the exact same issue, so I am concerned that this may be a very widespread problem...