Alex Dowsett Interview
Trev The Rev
Posts: 1,040
http://www.veloverit...sett-interview/
Quote: I took a completely different approach, usually I cover up power & heart rate on the computer and ride on speed......
I focused on power 400 to 420 watts on the flat & 450 watts on the climbs.....End Quote.
It seems he needs numbers to ride to.
Quote: I took a completely different approach, usually I cover up power & heart rate on the computer and ride on speed......
I focused on power 400 to 420 watts on the flat & 450 watts on the climbs.....End Quote.
It seems he needs numbers to ride to.
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Trev The Rev wrote:http://www.veloverit...sett-interview/
Quote: I took a completely different approach, usually I cover up power & heart rate on the computer and ride on speed......
I focused on power 400 to 420 watts on the flat & 450 watts on the climbs.....End Quote.
It seems he needs numbers to ride to.
Many of them do use numbers now, especially the testers
EDIT: above0 -
Trev The Rev wrote:http://www.veloverit...sett-interview/
Quote: I took a completely different approach, usually I cover up power & heart rate on the computer and ride on speed......
I focused on power 400 to 420 watts on the flat & 450 watts on the climbs.....End Quote.
It seems he needs numbers to ride to.
No, he chooses to use numbers, he doesn't need them. What's your point Rev?More problems but still living....0 -
amaferanga wrote:Trev The Rev wrote:http://www.veloverit...sett-interview/
Quote: I took a completely different approach, usually I cover up power & heart rate on the computer and ride on speed......
I focused on power 400 to 420 watts on the flat & 450 watts on the climbs.....End Quote.
It seems he needs numbers to ride to.
No, he chooses to use numbers, he doesn't need them. What's your point Rev?
The point being he needs the advice of a coach to tell him to ride to certain numbers when, by his own testimony he used to ride to speed, which means he must have been ignoring 'feel' and finds pacing himself difficult. You assume he can ride by feel, perhaps he can, but his coach has advised him to ride to power numbers.
If you ride to numbers you limit your performance to the numbers you ride to. This is a conservative approach which can result in a ride well below a riders potential. Or the rider may blow badly trying to hold numbers which, on the day, he is incapable of riding to. Or, what if his power meter is not giving the correct numbers? Or, what if the conditions on the day require deviation from the pre planned numbers?
It is probable that by riding to numbers he did in fact under perform even though he believes it helped him pace the ride better.0 -
Trev The Rev wrote:The point being he needs the advice of a coach to tell him to ride to certain numbers when, by his own testimony he used to ride to speed, which means he must have been ignoring 'feel' and finds pacing himself difficult. You assume he can ride by feel, perhaps he can, but his coach has advised him to ride to power numbers.
If you ride to numbers you limit your performance to the numbers you ride to. This is a conservative approach which can result in a ride well below a riders potential. Or the rider may blow badly trying to hold numbers which, on the day, he is incapable of riding to. Or, what if his power meter is not giving the correct numbers? Or, what if the conditions on the day require deviation from the pre planned numbers?
It is probable that by riding to numbers he did in fact under perform even though he believes it helped him pace the ride better.
Or by riding to the numbers he ensured he didn't blow his doors off in the first few miles and as a consequence rode quicker than he would have by "feel".0 -
r0bh wrote:Trev The Rev wrote:The point being he needs the advice of a coach to tell him to ride to certain numbers when, by his own testimony he used to ride to speed, which means he must have been ignoring 'feel' and finds pacing himself difficult. You assume he can ride by feel, perhaps he can, but his coach has advised him to ride to power numbers.
If you ride to numbers you limit your performance to the numbers you ride to. This is a conservative approach which can result in a ride well below a riders potential. Or the rider may blow badly trying to hold numbers which, on the day, he is incapable of riding to. Or, what if his power meter is not giving the correct numbers? Or, what if the conditions on the day require deviation from the pre planned numbers?
It is probable that by riding to numbers he did in fact under perform even though he believes it helped him pace the ride better.
Or by riding to the numbers he ensured he didn't blow his doors off in the first few miles and as a consequence rode quicker than he would have by "feel".
Only a novice or fool blows his doors off in the first few miles of a TT. Mind you, for all I know, pro riders use certain 'legal performance enhancing substances' which cause them to have no feel whatever so they need the numbers.0 -
Whevs, Trevs0
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Have I travelled to some alternate universe where sky didn't dominate the tour by mainly riding to their numbers?You live and learn. At any rate, you live0
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I'm not a number I'm a free man :P0
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Does Trev not realize that they measure then numbers in training to discover what a rider can or cannot sustain?0
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Trev, you forgot to read the first 14 words of the quote you posted.
Also, reading between the lines of that interview, I think he will be back at Sky next year after all.0 -
Turfle wrote:Trev, you forgot to read the first 14 words of the quote you posted.
Also, reading between the lines of that interview, I think he will be back at Sky next year after all.
Yeah, interesting. Not a whiff of him moving teams in that interview, and talk of hoping to do a GT next year..0 -
Trev The Rev wrote:
The point being he needs the advice of a coach to tell him to ride to certain numbers when, by his own testimony he used to ride to speed, which means he must have been ignoring 'feel' and finds pacing himself difficult. You assume he can ride by feel, perhaps he can, but his coach has advised him to ride to power numbers.
If you ride to numbers you limit your performance to the numbers you ride to. This is a conservative approach which can result in a ride well below a riders potential. Or the rider may blow badly trying to hold numbers which, on the day, he is incapable of riding to. Or, what if his power meter is not giving the correct numbers? Or, what if the conditions on the day require deviation from the pre planned numbers?
It is probable that by riding to numbers he did in fact under perform even though he believes it helped him pace the ride better.
You da man trev. Love your certainty that you're right. You obviously would have coached Dowsett to wins on all fronts last season.0 -
Heavymental wrote:Trev The Rev wrote:
The point being he needs the advice of a coach to tell him to ride to certain numbers when, by his own testimony he used to ride to speed, which means he must have been ignoring 'feel' and finds pacing himself difficult. You assume he can ride by feel, perhaps he can, but his coach has advised him to ride to power numbers.
If you ride to numbers you limit your performance to the numbers you ride to. This is a conservative approach which can result in a ride well below a riders potential. Or the rider may blow badly trying to hold numbers which, on the day, he is incapable of riding to. Or, what if his power meter is not giving the correct numbers? Or, what if the conditions on the day require deviation from the pre planned numbers?
It is probable that by riding to numbers he did in fact under perform even though he believes it helped him pace the ride better.
You da man trev. Love your certainty that you're right. You obviously would have coached Dowsett to wins on all fronts last season.
You da man trev. Love your utter certain ty that you're right.
Sky are a coach down now - fancy the gig, Trev?
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ddraver wrote:You have to love the Anti-Skys don't you - Rider uses Powermeter, therefore is a doper!
Seriously you couldnt make it u....oh.
I said legal performance enhancing substances, I did not say he was a doper.
Obviously his coach (now sacked for taking EPO in the past when a rider) knows from the power meter data what power he can sustain in both training and in races from previous data. That does not make my comments invalid. Dowsett obviously can't pace himself which is why his coach told him to ride to numbers. Wiggins has also used a power meter to pace himself in TTs.
It should be remembered that cyclists who use power meters are the only sportsmen on earth who need a power meter to pace effort. No other sport uses power meters other than rowing and then almost exclusively for indoor training.
Pace judgement or effort judgement is a basic skill, it would seem cyclists brought up in the power meter age are losing this skill.
I think that, pace judgement being a skill, power meters should be banned in races. They are banned for the Athletes Hour.0 -
Trev The Rev wrote:Dowsett obviously can't pace himself which is why his coach told him to ride to numbers.
Um have you considered that he may be able to pace without power data, but that with power data it works better for him? That could be the case could it not? How do you know otherwise? You don't.More problems but still living....0 -
I dont think going by numbers means anything, most riders do, just listen to Wiggo at the tour saying hes told to hit the numbers and thats what he does, worked for him.
Also, you cant go by 'feel'. How many times have you jumped on the bike or turbo for a session feeling great, only to then find you struggle and the whole ride seems to be a major grind. Then other days you have to force yourself because you really cant be bothered or are tired only to have a great session and its a bit surprising. So you cant always go by feel either. Numbers are actually good to go by, they can tell you when youre overdoing it or not pushing it enough.
I actually met Dowsett a few months back on the tube going home, i was reading CWeekly and he was sitting opposite, i looked up and he said hi, next thing were having a chat about cycling. Really nice bloke.0 -
there are some old skool riders who wont use them - I'm thinking the likes of Voeckler and Freire. Otherwise they've became a pretty essential tool for many riders.0
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Insideinfo wrote:I dont think going by numbers means anything, most riders do, just listen to Wiggo at the tour saying hes told to hit the numbers and thats what he does, worked for him.
Also, you cant go by 'feel'. How many times have you jumped on the bike or turbo for a session feeling great, only to then find you struggle and the whole ride seems to be a major grind. Then other days you have to force yourself because you really cant be bothered or are tired only to have a great session and its a bit surprising. So you cant always go by feel either. Numbers are actually good to go by, they can tell you when youre overdoing it or not pushing it enough.
I actually met Dowsett a few months back on the tube going home, i was reading CWeekly and he was sitting opposite, i looked up and he said hi, next thing were having a chat about cycling. Really nice bloke.
Sorry, you can go by feel, what do you think people did before power meters? What do you think runners and swimmers do? Humans have an inbuilt ability to pace, but the power meter culture seems to have caused people to lose this innate ability. You do not need a power meter to pace yourself.0 -
It's unfair to compare cycling to rowing considering you row for 2000m and are done in under 10 minutes but on a bike you have 4+ hours out there, at best a TT in under an hour.
Fact is more than most sports cycling is about the mental game as well as the physical. If you "feel" rank and that you are not performing the numbers can give you that boost that you are actually performing just fine. It can have the opposite effect too. it's about what works for you. Cav has often said how he hates the numbers but for someone like wiggo it helps them keep focused.
Anyway nice troll effort.0 -
thamacdaddy wrote:It's unfair to compare cycling to rowing considering you row for 2000m and are done in under 10 minutes but on a bike you have 4+ hours out there, at best a TT in under an hour.
Fact is more than most sports cycling is about the mental game as well as the physical. If you "feel" rank and that you are not performing the numbers can give you that boost that you are actually performing just fine. It can have the opposite effect too. it's about what works for you. Cav has often said how he hates the numbers but for someone like wiggo it helps them keep focused.
Anyway nice troll effort.
Yes it is about what works for the individual. Why do you make the troll comment? You don't agree with me fine. Argue with me fine, or ignore my posts fine, but please do not call me a troll.0 -
Cycling is pretty much the only sport where you can use a power meter and it gives you a true measure of the work that you're doing. Using numbers, whether those are heart rate or power, to pace yourself is, if done correctly, a more accurate way of metering out your effort than simply by feel. I take on Trev's point about under-performing by riding to numbers rather than potential, but it is the other side of the coin that says "you know you can hold this level of effort for this time". That's pretty much how Sky dominated both the mountains and the TT. They knew that they could ride up certain climbs by holding a certain power level and that anyone who launched an attack would have to slow up to recover and so come back to them.
In a road race or crit, power is of interest only afterwards to help you analyse what went right or wrong ("Why did I get dropped on the 2nd to last lap? Oh, I'd had 6 big 10s efforts to chase down a break and I can see that I need to improve my recovery by better intervals at that duration").FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.0 -
Wrath Rob wrote:Cycling is pretty much the only sport where you can use a power meter and it gives you a true measure of the work that you're doing. Using numbers, whether those are heart rate or power, to pace yourself is, if done correctly, a more accurate way of metering out your effort than simply by feel. I take on Trev's point about under-performing by riding to numbers rather than potential, but it is the other side of the coin that says "you know you can hold this level of effort for this time". That's pretty much how Sky dominated both the mountains and the TT. They knew that they could ride up certain climbs by holding a certain power level and that anyone who launched an attack would have to slow up to recover and so come back to them.
In a road race or crit, power is of interest only afterwards to help you analyse what went right or wrong ("Why did I get dropped on the 2nd to last lap? Oh, I'd had 6 big 10s efforts to chase down a break and I can see that I need to improve my recovery by better intervals at that duration").
Good post.
I think you will find that 'feel' can be very accurate, far more accurate than you might think. One problem with riding to numbers rather than feel is that humans are not machines. Past performance is not always an accurate guide to today's performance limits.
Your power meter data may say you can hold 300 watts for 20 minutes. But human performance is very variable and come race day you may be only able to hold 290 watts and blow after 12 minutes trying to hold 300 watts. Or find you have plenty left after 12 minutes at 300 watts and you could easily have done 310 watts. You need to listen to your body, not rely on numbers.
But I take your points about how you can use power meters to your advantage.0 -
Trev The Rev wrote:Insideinfo wrote:I dont think going by numbers means anything, most riders do, just listen to Wiggo at the tour saying hes told to hit the numbers and thats what he does, worked for him.
Also, you cant go by 'feel'. How many times have you jumped on the bike or turbo for a session feeling great, only to then find you struggle and the whole ride seems to be a major grind. Then other days you have to force yourself because you really cant be bothered or are tired only to have a great session and its a bit surprising. So you cant always go by feel either. Numbers are actually good to go by, they can tell you when youre overdoing it or not pushing it enough.
I actually met Dowsett a few months back on the tube going home, i was reading CWeekly and he was sitting opposite, i looked up and he said hi, next thing were having a chat about cycling. Really nice bloke.
Sorry, you can go by feel, what do you think people did before power meters? What do you think runners and swimmers do? Humans have an inbuilt ability to pace, but the power meter culture seems to have caused people to lose this innate ability. You do not need a power meter to pace yourself.
Im not saying you cant completely, im saying that feel and numbers seem to work the best. You say you can go by feel only, well look what happened to Wiggins when he went by 'feel' a few years ago at the tour, he was meant to dominate and got his ass kicked. He even says himself he felt great but totally underestimated the pace, the effort, so much for feel then eh? It wasnt until Sky stripped it back, brought in the science guys and got him working to numbers in the mountains that he finally showed his true potential and ended up winning. Numbers worked for Wiggins, feel obviously doesnt, so its not wrong.
No you dont need a power meter to pace yourself but its widely accepted youre better with one.
People walked before cars were invented but most people agree we get around faster with them. By all means walk if thats what you prefer.0 -
Judging by the amount of expertise shown in the above posts DB shouldn't be having much trouble replacing some of the shameful staff that are currently having to walk the plank at SKY.
CV's in on Monday guys.
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Unfortunately, the numbers don't lie: whereas feelings can.
I would have been inclined to remain a traditionalist on this until the experience of riding the Tour of Flanders route with a power meter changed my mind.
The key power reading that repeatedly showed me exactly how "perception of effort" could be misleading was over the top of climbs. Previously, I'd have thought that the effort I was making was still quite high: I'd be breathing hard and heart-rate would still be racing. But the power readings were showing me that even though my perceived effort still felt significant, my power had dropped massively. Obviously, you'd expect that the power will have dropped after a steep hill, but the discrepancy between what I thought I was putting out Vs what I was actually putting out= considerable0 -
Insideinfo wrote:I dont think going by numbers means anything, most riders do, just listen to Wiggo at the tour saying hes told to hit the numbers and thats what he does, worked for him.
Also, you cant go by 'feel'. How many times have you jumped on the bike or turbo for a session feeling great, only to then find you struggle and the whole ride seems to be a major grind. Then other days you have to force yourself because you really cant be bothered or are tired only to have a great session and its a bit surprising. So you cant always go by feel either. Numbers are actually good to go by, they can tell you when youre overdoing it or not pushing it enough.
I actually met Dowsett a few months back on the tube going home, i was reading CWeekly and he was sitting opposite, i looked up and he said hi, next thing were having a chat about cycling. Really nice bloke.
Shame he didn't tell you where Cav was going? :-)0
