Insurance? Do I need it?

maxima

I am cycling in Richmond park only. It is not risk free however. I wonder if I need to buy an insurance? Do I have to? Do I need to?

I'd like to protect my bike and dodgy legal claims but dont really want spend money unless I am convinced it is necessary..

Do you guys have an insurance and what do you normally insure?

Ride hard

It goes down to personal preference, but in the same way I would never leave the house without an umbrella if I see dark clouds (not when cycling obviously) - just in case, or would never go out without my helmet - just in case, I think insurance is a good thing - just in case.

For me its peace of mind, and for the kind of money some people might spend on an average night out, it works out as peanuts especially as opposed to the potential cost of replacing a bike if you had it stolen or were involved in an accident.

Macdory

Try joining British Cycling - some basic cover there. I would also double check your home insurance policy to see if it covers your bike being stolen at home or whilst out.

Ultimately it is your risk and therefore your call as to how much risk you are willing to take without being uninsured.

maxima

OK guys thanks. I do know how insurance works.. The question basically - do you pay for it and which covers (bike, health, 3d party damage in accident, general public liability etc)?

desweller

I have 3rd party insurance as a result of my membership with CTC. IMO it's the best cost/benefit ratio. As bike theft is so common I don't think you'd get an economic rate except as part of your home contents insurance. My health is covered elsewhere.

ricky1980

unless you are trying to beat Strava time why would you ride so hard and so unaware of your surrounding? cyclists have a natural high ground and good observation point, so you should be a lot more aware of the surroundings. 3rd person insurance sounds like throwing money away for me. as for theft, that's probably more sensible. but you need to consider how you use your bike and where you are leaving it. if there is no chance it will be left next to a lamp post, do you really need it? if you live in shared accommodation, you should have got contents insurance which will provide some cover for bikes (£500 usually) maybe see if there is another one out there can top it up.

anyway, does any one know the pay out rates for various insurance companies? it's one thing to buy an insurance but it is another when you want to claim. Some can be extremely anal and will probably find all sorts of excuses for not paying out very much like car insurance companies?

desweller

Well, I hit a pothole coming down a hill and stacked into the front of a car head first at a fair speed. Destroyed the air splitter and totalled the radiator. So yeah, for me it has been worth it.

Obviously insurance is there to cover events that you cannot foresee, otherwise you'd take measures to avoid them.

Joeblack

Yes I'm the only to go for the smoking pot option!!!

Buckie2k5

iam actually in the process of changing home insurace. Any recommendations for incuded bike cover?

Ride hard

I use Evans/JTL cycle insurance.

It covers everything including public liability. I did a bit of research before going for it as even though some insurers seemingly offer cheaper premiums, they all seem to cover different things under the policy. You might have different needs from me such as racing, or going abroad so its worthwhile doing you research too.

Always remember, cheaper is not necessarily better.

paulg99

ricky1980 wrote:

unless you are trying to beat Strava time why would you ride so hard and so unaware of your surrounding? cyclists have a natural high ground and good observation point, so you should be a lot more aware of the surroundings. 3rd person insurance sounds like throwing money away for me. as for theft, that's probably more sensible. but you need to consider how you use your bike and where you are leaving it. if there is no chance it will be left next to a lamp post, do you really need it? if you live in shared accommodation, you should have got contents insurance which will provide some cover for bikes (£500 usually) maybe see if there is another one out there can top it up.

anyway, does any one know the pay out rates for various insurance companies? it's one thing to buy an insurance but it is another when you want to claim. Some can be extremely anal and will probably find all sorts of excuses for not paying out very much like car insurance companies?

You are quite right that no cyclist should need third party cover, as they should be aware of their surroundings and riding appropriately. However, consider this...

You are riding sensibly and a car performs a really bad overtake, leaves you no room at all, and as you try to avoid being swept under his wheels you accidently damage his car. This isn't your fault and there are no witnesses so he calls the police and you exchange details. The car driver has already made clear they are a complete d1ck by performing the bad overtake, goes home and tells his insurance company that it was your fault. The insurance company can only go by what they have been told so issue a claim against you for the damage.

You can now either pay up or go to court and defend yourself (in which case you will likely be put to some expense by losing at least time of work, or again by having to pay for the damage if the insurance companies solicitors are any good).

Third party liability insurance...good call?

As for your second comment regarding insurance companies pay out rates. I think that you will find if you have taken out the correct and adequate cover, and are not trying to claim for something which you are not covered for, the pay out rates are near 100%.

Mikey23

Third party liability insurance is a no brainer IMO and I couldn't have put it better than the above poster. Chances are you will never need to use it but if you do, you can find yourself in deep doo doo if you aint insured. A bit like risking a holiday without insurance...

With British cycling s discounted deal I don't think £12 is too much for peace of mind? For a few pounds a year I have upgraded my home contents for my bike to anywhere in Europe. Direct line for what it's worth

2Phat4Rapha

Suppose something silly happens like you wobble or swerve for some reason and accidentally scratch a car. You would have caused a loss to its owner that he would quite understandably expect you to put right.

You could just do a runner or leave him some false details of course and I’ll leave you to ponder the morality of such actions. But supposing you ‘fess up. If you don’t have insurance he could pursue you through the civil courts or he could claim off his own insurance. If he does that, his insurance company will likely pursue you for the full amount they’ve forked out plus legal costs.

If you don’t have the money the court can send in the bailiff to take enough goods to cover your debt and/or you can end up with a County Court Judgment against you that sits on file for (I think) seven years. This can seriously affect your ability to get credit!

So, whether you want to insure your bike against damage or theft is one thing, but third party insurance is, in my opinion, a very good thing. It doesn’t even cost much. And if you join something like British Cycling or LCC, it’s included. You can even get free legal advice.

Trust me, join one.

SHADOWMATE

I am currently perusing the different deals out there but have no idea what to get.

diy

As a cyclists you are under no obligation to exchange details following a road traffic accident. I'm not condoning causing damage and legging it, but its not a legal requirement to stop and give details.

Probably worth getting 3rd party cover if you have assets to protect. I'm not sure the theft/damage insurances are worth much on high end bikes given their cost and exclusions.

lotus49

Read this thread posted a few minutes ago viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=12887606.

This has decided me.

ricky1980

PaulG99 wrote:

You are quite right that no cyclist should need third party cover, as they should be aware of their surroundings and riding appropriately. However, consider this...

You are riding sensibly and a car performs a really bad overtake, leaves you no room at all, and as you try to avoid being swept under his wheels you accidently damage his car. This isn't your fault and there are no witnesses so he calls the police and you exchange details. The car driver has already made clear they are a complete d1ck by performing the bad overtake, goes home and tells his insurance company that it was your fault. The insurance company can only go by what they have been told so issue a claim against you for the damage.

As for your second comment regarding insurance companies pay out rates. I think that you will find if you have taken out the correct and adequate cover, and are not trying to claim for something which you are not covered for, the pay out rates are near 100%.

i don't agree in your scenario as a cyclist you have the option to hang back or keep the part of the road and see how stupid the driver is. My option is ALWAYS hang back in these situations. I do not compete for road with moving cars cos I know i will end up worse and i don't want to be end up being in a hospital. I ride with the mind set I am the most value asset and fully aware of surrounding - zero risks. In your case i think the accident can be avoided.

Now even if you do get in an accident, as someone pointed out there is no obligation to provide details. However in most cases cars and other road users are generally at fault. I don't believe a statement taken from the police will put the fault squarely on you therefore the car driver will have to pay for certain amount of damage caused if not all. I certainly do not have a problem arguing out with the insurance company. That said, if you do get in an accident and you are hurt...you will need details from the car or whatever hit you and claim through their insurance. This will not require you have insurance. Furthermore having a 3rd party insurance may open you up to claims by that i mean your bike insurance company may consider arguing over the liability too much hassel and decides to settle with whomever is claiming against you. Now this is very typical practice in the motor insurance industry and the end result is rapid rising insurance premium.

back to my payout point, nope insurance companies do not pay out 100% at all instances otherwise they will be bust. They build in clauses and exclusions. I think you will find those small prints are probably a booklet or two big. So I am pretty sure you will not be fully protected against the value of your bike, such as someone mentioned about the maximum value of the bike...custom changes...speed you doing...the type of activity you are doing...etc etc. So i expect that the bike will probably only protected when it is locked in your house.

just want to add, i live in london. Horrific place as bike theft is very prolific. So the smart thing in this city is NEVER leave your bike unattended for a long period of time. they will steal your saddle and seat post. they will steal your wheels if you don't chain them up. now imagine this kind of environment, you probably think bike insurance is good idea. No...cos it takes Aeons for the insurance company to pay up not least the amount of paper work you have to provide. The loss is not just material but also sentimental. So my suggestion is just to look after the bike and keep it as safe as possible.

paulg99

ricky1980 wrote:

i don't agree in your scenario as a cyclist you have the option to hang back or keep the part of the road and see how stupid the driver is. My option is ALWAYS hang back in these situations. I do not compete for road with moving cars cos I know i will end up worse and i don't want to be end up being in a hospital. I ride with the mind set I am the most value asset and fully aware of surrounding - zero risks. In your case i think the accident can be avoided.

Unless you are riding on the pavement or psychic there is no way you can avoid my scenario. The car is approaching from behind you and turns in too early. “hanging back” is not a possible option.

ricky1980 wrote:

Now even if you do get in an accident, as someone pointed out there is no obligation to provide details.

Being a cyclist doesn’t grant you immunity from the law. Have a read: http://ukcyclerules.com/2011/02/08/when ... r-details/
In my scenario I mentioned the police were called. It is likely that you would be giving up your details to them.

ricky1980 wrote:

I certainly do not have a problem arguing out with the insurance company. That said, if you do get in an accident and you are hurt...you will need details from the car or whatever hit you and claim through their insurance. This will not require you have insurance. Furthermore having a 3rd party insurance may open you up to claims by that i mean your bike insurance company may consider arguing over the liability too much hassel and decides to settle with whomever is claiming against you. Now this is very typical practice in the motor insurance industry and the end result is rapid rising insurance premium.

It will still cost you either time off work or financially to employ legal counsel, so unless you are financially capable of this then the point I was making is that insurance will cover you for this for a very small premium. If you were to lose, and this does happen to the innocent on occasion, then it will be very costly as you would have to pay the other side’s legal costs as well as for the damage caused. If you do have insurance then your insurer may well come to an agreement with the car drivers insurers to settle and not go to court. It saves them money and ultimately you money through cheaper premiums. The rapidly rising insurance premiums in the motor industry is predominantly being caused by fraudulant claims and the growing "where theres blame theres a claim" PI culture.

ricky1980 wrote:

back to my payout point, nope insurance companies do not pay out 100% at all instances otherwise they will be bust. They build in clauses and exclusions. I think you will find those small prints are probably a booklet or two big. So I am pretty sure you will not be fully protected against the value of your bike, such as someone mentioned about the maximum value of the bike...custom changes...speed you doing...the type of activity you are doing...etc etc. So i expect that the bike will probably only protected when it is locked in your house.

I didn’t say it was 100% payout. I said it was near 100% if you have taken out the correct and adequate cover. They may well build in clauses and exclusions but it is up to you to read the small print. If you don’t and then find out that the cheap premium you were quoted is because the cover was crap, whose fault is it? Yes, look in the mirror. If you want bells and whistles insurance cover, expect to pay for it.

ricky1980 wrote:

just want to add, i live in london. Horrific place as bike theft is very prolific. So the smart thing in this city is NEVER leave your bike unattended for a long period of time. they will steal your saddle and seat post. they will steal your wheels if you don't chain them up. now imagine this kind of environment, you probably think bike insurance is good idea. No...cos it takes Aeons for the insurance company to pay up not least the amount of paper work you have to provide. The loss is not just material but also sentimental. So my suggestion is just to look after the bike and keep it as safe as possible.

Good advice here interspersed with your invaluable opinion. Insurance companies usually take between 6-8 weeks to pay out on a theft claim. The reason for this is that most will not consider the bike/car/boat/horse etc to be gone forever until between 4-6 weeks after the theft has occurred. If they paid out within a week and then the police recover the bike they would be left with a load of stuff they don’t want. I know the recovery rates for bikes are not great, but it is sensible business practise. The paperwork is so that they have some evidence that you actually owned the bike, it is actually reported stolen etc.

Pross

Two issues here - public liability and protecting your bike.

On the first I have cover through BC and if I didn't I would probably buy seperately (unless a close review shows my home insurance would cover me).

On the second, it used to be covered on the individual item on my home contents insurance but this now excludes bikes (or limits the value to a tiny amount). However, getting specific bike cover is pricey and you have to secure the bike in accordance with their conditions which is pretty impractical in my garden shed. Also, covering against damage in races is expensive. You just have to do a cost / risk analysis on your own circumstances.