Advice re landlord repairs

2

Comments

  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    GiantMike wrote:
    jibberjim wrote:
    See e.g. here

    Interesting document, but no mention of pets from what I could see.

    No, but does make it clear that who is using the property is relevant. My quick websearch didn't turn up one specifically dealing with pets.

    In any case it appears the Goat's deposit wasn't protected, so he should just get the deposit back and the 3 times penalty off of the landlords... And if they then do go to small claims over the rest they're unlikely to get a sympathetic hearing, and Goat will have plenty of cash to pay in any case.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    GiantMike wrote:
    Do you have photos of the place when you moved in? What's your opinion of the carpets? Did your dogs sh!t in the house?

    Why would I allow that to happen? We do have photos of the place from when I viewed it, I hadn't thought of that!

    In my opinion, the carpets could do with a clean from a carpet cleaner, like most carpets after 18 months of living somewhere. The dogs have not chewed or destroyed anything and the claim is for marks on the walls (which I scrubbed for ages but obviously not enough) and an alleged smell of dogs.

    I think the issue here is an emotive one. They haven't been in the house for 2 years and it was their own home before they let it out. The e-mail indicating intention to proceed with legal action makes references to "a lovely rug" and "my own son's nursery". I also know they want to try and sell the place, but it isnt my job, as a tenant, to maintain the value of their investment.

    I wasn't suggesting you did allow your dogs to sh!t inside. Why does the landlord think you did? Where's his/her evidence?

    It is usual for a tenancy agreement for there to be an agreement that the carpets will be professionally cleaned when the house is vacated and a copy of the receipt is left. Is this in your tenancy agreement? The troublw with 'dog smells' is that non-dog people smell dog smells more than dog-people.
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    GiantMike wrote:
    It is usual for a tenancy agreement for there to be an agreement that the carpets will be professionally cleaned when the house is vacated and a copy of the receipt is left. Is this in your tenancy agreement?

    I wouldn't rely on such clauses:
    "The Adjudicator found another clause under the Tenancy Agreement that stated that the Tenant was
    obliged to pay for the professional cleaning the carpets in the property at the end of the tenancy. The
    Adjudicator found that the Landlord could not rely on this clause of the Tenancy Agreement as it was
    an unfair contract term, where enforcement of this clause could result in the Tenant being liable for
    returning the carpets in a condition that was of a higher standard than the condition in which they
    were delivered at the start of the tenancy."
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Also, as I think I mentioned in an earlier post, we were without hot water for 3 weeks and without a working washing machine for 6 months whilst the Landlords attempted to get comet to honour a guarantee, and I raised not a peep of complaint
    It is usual for a tenancy agreement for there to be an agreement that the carpets will be professionally cleaned when the house is vacated and a copy of the receipt is left. Is this in your tenancy agreement? The troublw with 'dog smells' is that non-dog people smell dog smells more than dog-people.

    That's not in our contract. Or I would have had it done.

    I appreciate that about animal smells. But we paid 50% extra on the deposit (Circa £350) to be allowed to keep the dogs which I thought would deal with items of wear and tear such as marks on a wall and a disputed smell.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    jibberjim wrote:
    GiantMike wrote:
    It is usual for a tenancy agreement for there to be an agreement that the carpets will be professionally cleaned when the house is vacated and a copy of the receipt is left. Is this in your tenancy agreement?

    I wouldn't rely on such clauses:
    "The Adjudicator found another clause under the Tenancy Agreement that stated that the Tenant was
    obliged to pay for the professional cleaning the carpets in the property at the end of the tenancy. The
    Adjudicator found that the Landlord could not rely on this clause of the Tenancy Agreement as it was
    an unfair contract term, where enforcement of this clause could result in the Tenant being liable for
    returning the carpets in a condition that was of a higher standard than the condition in which they
    were delivered at the start of the tenancy."

    Sounds like in this case the carpets weren't cleaned before they moved in. If they are professionally cleaned before somebody moves in I would consider it fair for this to be specified when they move out.
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    GiantMike wrote:
    Sounds like in this case the carpets weren't cleaned before they moved in. If they are professionally cleaned before somebody moves in I would consider it fair for this to be specified when they move out.

    Potentially - but remember you need to actually be able to prove it unquestionably was.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Also, as I think I mentioned in an earlier post, we were without hot water for 3 weeks and without a working washing machine for 6 months whilst the Landlords attempted to get comet to honour a guarantee, and I raised not a peep of complaint
    It is usual for a tenancy agreement for there to be an agreement that the carpets will be professionally cleaned when the house is vacated and a copy of the receipt is left. Is this in your tenancy agreement? The troublw with 'dog smells' is that non-dog people smell dog smells more than dog-people.

    That's not in our contract. Or I would have had it done.

    I appreciate that about animal smells. But we paid 50% extra on the deposit (Circa £350) to be allowed to keep the dogs which I thought would deal with items of wear and tear such as marks on a wall and a disputed smell.

    I'm not taking sides; I'm just presenting an alternative viewpoint. As a non dog person, I wouldn't rent a house that smelt of dogs and no doubt the landlord feels the same way. Sounds like they expect all signs and smells of dogs to be removed. Whether this is reasonable or not is clearly a matter of opinion.
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    jibberjim wrote:
    GiantMike wrote:
    Sounds like in this case the carpets weren't cleaned before they moved in. If they are professionally cleaned before somebody moves in I would consider it fair for this to be specified when they move out.

    Potentially - but remember you need to actually be able to prove it unquestionably was.

    Which is why a landlord asks for a receipt. This is the proof the carpets had been cleaned before the tenancy and, using your example, proof that the carpets are not in a cleaner condition at the end than at the start of the tenancy.
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    GiantMike wrote:
    I'm not taking sides; I'm just presenting an alternative viewpoint. As a non dog person, I wouldn't rent a house that smelt of dogs and no doubt the landlord feels the same way. Sounds like they expect all signs and smells of dogs to be removed. Whether this is reasonable or not is clearly a matter of opinion.
    I'm not a dog person either, but if you don't want your house to smell of dog, then why would you let it out to a tenant with dogs, and give them written permission to keep them there!?
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    Graeme_S wrote:
    GiantMike wrote:
    I'm not taking sides; I'm just presenting an alternative viewpoint. As a non dog person, I wouldn't rent a house that smelt of dogs and no doubt the landlord feels the same way. Sounds like they expect all signs and smells of dogs to be removed. Whether this is reasonable or not is clearly a matter of opinion.
    I'm not a dog person either, but if you don't want your house to smell of dog, then why would you let it out to a tenant with dogs, and give them written permission to keep them there!?

    If the carpets and curtains are cleaned, the house doesn't smell of dogs.

    Somebody with a dog rented my house. I agreed on the condition that there would be no dog damage and that the carpets would be professionally cleaned and the curtains would be dry-cleaned at the end of the tenancy. The tenants did this and we were both happy. There was no excessive wear and tear, but had there been the tenant had agreed to cover the cost (and the deposit was higher).
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Thanks for these guys, some useful food for thought. This is really causing me some stress at the moment (to the point of being sick a coupl eof times today!) and just being able to get a few perspectives on the issue at hand is a help.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Thanks for these guys, some useful food for thought. This is really causing me some stress at the moment (to the point of being sick a coupl eof times today!) and just being able to get a few perspectives on the issue at hand is a help.

    If the tenancy is in a deposit protection scheme - then talk to them, they'll help remove the stress, it's why the laws requiring it were brought in.. If it's not, talk to Shelter/local council, the Landlord has really screwed up if it's not and you should get it fully back, hopefully with penalty although he can avoid that.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Thanks, I think as a next step, I'll reply to the landlady's e-mail requesting that she request deductions through the DPS and say that we will respond when we recieve that.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Thanks, I think as a next step, I'll reply to the landlady's e-mail requesting that she request deductions through the DPS and say that we will respond when we recieve that.

    You can request repayment from the DPS, no need to wait for the landlady.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    jibberjim wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Thanks, I think as a next step, I'll reply to the landlady's e-mail requesting that she request deductions through the DPS and say that we will respond when we recieve that.

    You can request repayment from the DPS, no need to wait for the landlady.

    I'll need to trawl my records when I get home and see if they ever sent the DPS stuff through, as that will have the repayment ID on it, gone through my e-mails and can't see anything. Think I need to send her something today though, at least to keep her from going legal!

    I'm also at a loss to explain why she felt the need to tell me she'd copied the e-mail to her friend and that she is a senior reporter on a tabloid newspaper.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    I'm also at a loss to explain why she felt the need to tell me she'd copied the e-mail to her friend and that she is a senior reporter on a tabloid newspaper.
    Well it does sound like front page tabloid fodder doesn't it?

    "Man keeps dogs in rented house with landlord's permission... house smells bit doggy afterwards"
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    I'm also at a loss to explain why she felt the need to tell me she'd copied the e-mail to her friend and that she is a senior reporter on a tabloid newspaper.

    She sounds like a complete nutter. More importantly, she sounds like she's trying to harrass you.

    Have you told her you have the BR legal expert team on board?
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    GiantMike wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    I'm also at a loss to explain why she felt the need to tell me she'd copied the e-mail to her friend and that she is a senior reporter on a tabloid newspaper.

    She sounds like a complete nutter. More importantly, she sounds like she's trying to harrass you.

    Have you told her you have the BR legal expert team on board?

    She did exactly the same to Comet at the height of the washing machine saga. It must work on some people. As scary as I am finding this, I'm trying to remind myself that she's not evil, she's just emotionally attached to the house and disappointed in the way she has found it.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • natrix
    natrix Posts: 1,111
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    I'm trying to remind myself that she's not evil,

    But surely it's lot more fun to imagine that she is evil?? :twisted: :twisted:
    ~~~~~~Sustrans - Join the Movement~~~~~~
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Response to last nights e-mail was 2 fold. The first responded to my request that everything be put through the DPS by saying "Yes we will certainly do that"... The second an hour later reiterated my list of crimes, threatened legal action, said the DPS would take ages and that we didn't want them to be forced to take it further, then threatened legal action.

    I am now reasonably certain that they have not placed my money in the DPS, otherwise they would know that going through that process would be the only way to get their hands on the deposit.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Response to last nights e-mail was 2 fold. The first responded to my request that everything be put through the DPS by saying "Yes we will certainly do that"... The second an hour later reiterated my list of crimes, threatened legal action, said the DPS would take ages and that we didn't want them to be forced to take it further, then threatened legal action.

    I am now reasonably certain that they have not placed my money in the DPS, otherwise they would know that going through that process would be the only way to get their hands on the deposit.

    Hmm, could read this 2 ways. The first is, as you say, that the money isn't in DPS. The second is that the money is in DPS but as they're looking for more money than you paid as a deposit they will have to go down the legal route to recover the difference if you don't agree to pay.

    I wouldn't draw any conclusions until you have more evidence. It might be worth asking the agent what happened to the deposit you paid to them (the agent) when the landlord took the property back from them.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Obviously, this is guess work on all our parts but I can't see why you would hope to be able to negotiate a solution outside of the scheme, when you can't get your hands on the money without going through it, unless you had never placed the money in a scheme.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    I thought they wanted another £1700 off of you? Money that isn't in the DPS?
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    GiantMike wrote:
    I thought they wanted another £1700 off of you? Money that isn't in the DPS?

    Indeed they do.

    I e-mailed yesterday, requesting that they submit amounts deductable from the deposit through the DPS, supported by quotes or receipts and should that amount exceed the deposit we would discuss it further.

    They replied in the first instance that they would be proceeding on that basis, then sent a second e-mail that made no mention of the DPS other than to say the process we proposed would take too long, that they wanted a swift resolution, to make more threats of legal action and to threaten to increase the amounts to cover loss of earnings incurred by carrying out works to the house.

    How would you interperet that?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    If you're sure it's in the DPS:
    https://www.depositprotection.com/is-my ... -protected
    You can hopefully find it through there (although you need to match exact surnames if it was in joint - you can try calling them if it fails to find something as it won't for certain means it's not protected.)
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    I If you have £1000 in deposit and they want £2700, are the landlords supposed to try to get it from you or through the DPS? I thought the DPS was introduced to stop unscrupulous landlords making unnecassary deductions from a deposit by making them prove what deductions were required,. Or are they supposed to act as an arbiter for all tenancy-related claims? I'm interested because I have a deposit in the DPS.

    Let's say a tenant had £600 in the DPS and had done £10,000 worth of damage. Would you try to claim this via DPS or straight through the courts?
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    GiantMike wrote:
    I If you have £1000 in deposit and they want £2700, are the landlords supposed to try to get it from you or through the DPS? I thought the DPS was introduced to stop unscrupulous landlords making unnecassary deductions from a deposit by making them prove what deductions were required,. Or are they supposed to act as an arbiter for all tenancy-related claims? I'm interested because I have a deposit in the DPS.

    Let's say a tenant had £600 in the DPS and had done £10,000 worth of damage. Would you try to claim this via DPS or straight through the courts?

    Only money in the DPS is covered by the strictures of the DPS.

    I'm disputing that the work that needs doing to the house amounts to the money they have allegedly secured within the DPS. I have requested that before we enter into any dialogue about monies over and above the £1012 they say they have secured in the scheme we should deal with that and that deductions should be receipted or supported with quotations.

    They initially agreed to this and then backtracked saying it would take too long and they wanted a swifter resolution and then issued more threats. The money secured within the DPS will form part/all of any settlement and I am losing confidence that it was placed into the DPS after the landlords removed the agent from managing the house.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Just as an update to this... 4 days since I sent them an e-mail requesting that they update the DPS account and forward me on quotes/receipts and no response.

    So much for the "speedy resolution" they were desperate for.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    If that £1012 is in the DPS, I'll show my ar$e in Foxtons.
    Ben

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  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    As an aside, I did a take-back inspection of my property on Saturday. Before the tenants moved out I asked then to let me know if there was anything I needed to know about and if there were any problems. I was told there weren't.
    When I arrived there was a burn on the carpet from an iron. There was a large stain in the middle of the living room carpet, there was significant water damage to one of the kitchen cupboards as a result of a leaky washing machine pipe, the garden was overgrown and a lot of rubbish dumped in the garden. I then spent the weekend getting the property sorted out so that other tenants can move in and not be affected by the previous tenant.
    [Not aimed at Disgruntled Goat] Landlords always get a slamming from tenants and have a reputation of being money-grabbing b'stards. In my experience it is a few bad tenants that cause landlords the most trouble and this may be why tenants aren't always treated the way they should.

    Right, I'm off to write to the DPS to claim the £300+ deduction from the deposit.

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