Should prisoners get the vote

DonDaddyD

http://www.respectyourself.info/

Should prisoners get the vote?

My personal view is NO! As part of society we agree to live within the boundaries of laws/rules. If you commit a crime that warrants a custodial sentence then it has been deemed that your actions place as not wanting to live within those boundaries. As you are outside those boundaries you should lose the right to vote and have an impact on said society.

What do you think?

zx6man

Nope, just bread and water on a good day, nothing else

Koncordski

Obviously not, free to vote when you've done your time.

SimonAH

No.

Apart from the moral / ethical arguments the biggest reason for this is block voting. If you have a large prison in a seat, if you can get it to block vote (and let's face it, this is the definition of a captive audience :-D ) then it would be a decider in most contested elections. This would mean that courting the prison vote would be a massive priority for any aspiring politician, which would mean the the wants / interests of the prisoners would receive a disproportionate level of attention compared to Joe Law Abiding Public.

byke68

NO - simple as that, no if's, no but's

notsoblue

Yes. Next...

dhope

I'm more concerned about black footerballers that identify as mixed race getting the vote

walkingbootweather

Only for Police Commissioners

graeme_s-2

Personally I think they should have the vote, yes. The whole point of prison is to rehabilitate people so they can return to society. They should be encouraged to participate in shaping that society by voting.

graeme_s-2

Also I'd love to see political candidates tying themselves in knots trying to simultaneously appeal to prisoners and the hang 'em high daily mail crowd

EKE_38BPM

No. Whilst inside you should lose that right. When you get out, you get it back.
If you don't want to lose your vote, don't commit a crime. Or at least don't get caught committing a crime.

mudcow007

why not, we give them a ps3's an tv's

SteppenHerring

I say yes. Partly because of arguments about being part of society and that but mostly because it will annoy the hell out of the Daily Mail.

cyclingprop

No. Runs the risk of the prisoner deciding what happens to them. Which defeats the purpose.

TheStone

Ignoring the fact that voting has become a bit pointless (no real choice), I remember being really surprised when I found out they couldn't vote, so I think they should.

bigmat

Yes. Its a human rights issue. How much money is it worth the government wasting arguing that they shouldn't, just to ingratiate themselves to the Daily Fail readership? I would usggest none.

jedster

No.

How can it be a human rights issue?

The whole point of prison is that we are suspending some of your human rights. Like the right to walk around freely and talk to who you like. To my mind that is a much bigger infringement of human rights than temporarily losing the right to vote.

Of course you should be free to vote as soon as you are released.

notsoblue

Given that (I would guess) most prisoners are pretty disenfranchised from society anyway, isn't this debate a bit of a red herring? How many prisoners actually *want* to vote?

rjsterry

I'm not sure how it would even work. Would they be voting for the MP/Councillor in whose constituency the prison is located? That would seem to unbalance the electorate wherever there is a prison, and seems ripe for electoral corruption. Each prisoner voting in their "home" constituency seems a bit pointless, not to mention hugely bureaucratic.

BigJimmyB

No. You are outside of society IMHO if you are in prison.

Rehabilitate them by all means and give them something to aim for on the outside, but take away the luxuries (games consoles etc) - bloody daft idea - most of them are happier in prison I'm sure which is no good fo anyone.

Let them have TV's and computers as a means to keep in touch with the outside world and for learning. Other than that, do your time, pay your debt and come out better able to contribute.

BJB

SimonAH

rjsterry wrote:

I'm not sure how it would even work. Would they be voting for the MP/Councillor in whose constituency the prison is located? That would seem to unbalance the electorate wherever there is a prison, and seems ripe for electoral corruption. Each prisoner voting in their "home" constituency seems a bit pointless, not to mention hugely bureaucratic.

I would submit that they woul be voting in the ward in which the prison is located as that is their address - many won't have an address outside of HMP - so it will massively unbalance the vote in that area, especially as they have little else to do I suspect that the turnout would be very high.

It's bad enough that a massive proportion of the free citizens of this country can't be bothered to go to a polling station every now and then - to then additionally hugely skew the results by the input of (by definition) the worst section of the populace would be ridiculous.

notsoblue

rjsterry wrote:

I'm not sure how it would even work. Would they be voting for the MP/Councillor in whose constituency the prison is located? That would seem to unbalance the electorate wherever there is a prison, and seems ripe for electoral corruption. Each prisoner voting in their "home" constituency seems a bit pointless, not to mention hugely bureaucratic.

I think the whole issue is just designed to be a platform for tory rhetoric. Its a bit of a dogwhistle for people that are anti human rights and anti Europe. Its a complete non-issue.

notsoblue

BigJimmyB wrote:

No. You are outside of society IMHO if you are in prison.

Rehabilitate them by all means and give them something to aim for on the outside, but take away the luxuries (games consoles etc) - bloody daft idea - most of them are happier in prison I'm sure which is no good fo anyone.

Let them have TV's and computers as a means to keep in touch with the outside world and for learning. Other than that, do your time, pay your debt and come out better able to contribute.

BJB

Don't you think there might be an argument that voting makes people more invested in their society, and this is one of the things that prisons should really be doing as part of rehabilitation? If you feel part of society, you're probably less likely to commit crimes against it.

BelgianBeerGeek

Yes. Like it or not, they are part of society. Saying that they would be a big block vote is like saying a prospective MP could get a load of "block" votes from an army barracks.

bobinski

Yes, it can become part of their rehabilitation.

We should be glad that, irrespective of what they have done, some of them at least want to vote.

To be honest I am more concerned about the huge number of people that don't vote and who also don't have being temporarily incarcerated as an excuse...

Ben6899

Yes, let them vote.

And then throw the ballot papers in the North Sea.

rjsterry

notsoblue wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

I'm not sure how it would even work. Would they be voting for the MP/Councillor in whose constituency the prison is located? That would seem to unbalance the electorate wherever there is a prison, and seems ripe for electoral corruption. Each prisoner voting in their "home" constituency seems a bit pointless, not to mention hugely bureaucratic.

I think the whole issue is just designed to be a platform for tory rhetoric. Its a bit of a dogwhistle for people that are anti human rights and anti Europe. Its a complete non-issue.

True.

greg66_tri_v2.0

DonDaddyD wrote:

http://www.respectyourself.info/

Should prisoners get the vote?

My personal view is NO! As part of society we agree to live within the boundaries of laws/rules. If you commit a crime that warrants a custodial sentence then it has been deemed that your actions place as not wanting to live within those boundaries. As you are outside those boundaries you should lose the right to vote and have an impact on said society.

What do you think?

I think this is an attractive but flawed argument.

Committing any criminal offence means you step outside the boundaries of society's laws/rules. But for some offences you will get a custodial sentence, and for some you will not. I'm not sure anyone (sensible) advocates removing the right to vote upon conviction of any and every crime.

So the issue shifts to a question of degree. Prison is a removal from society, but does a prison sentence truly reflect the worst criminal behaviour? Again, most (sensible) people would regard certain offences as always meriting a prison sentence. But it is quite clear that there is a large grey area below the most serious of offences: eg to take two random examples: physical violence does not always result in a prison sentence, whereas speeding in a car without more can result in a prison sentence. I find this a bit "upside down", and I am not convinced that there is the a consensus view as to which offences in this grey area should merit prison and which should not. Furthermore, in some cases prison can be avoided by genuine or skilful mitigation, which has nothing to do with the severity of the crime.

So you end up with the position that conviction of some criminal offences should result in a loss of the vote, irrespective of the sentence. I find that line - who loses and who retains the vote - almost impossible to draw personally. So whilst it may seem a bit of a kop out, I wouldn't try to draw it at all; I'd leave prisoners with the right vote.

Greg T

notsoblue wrote:

Don't you think there might be an argument that voting makes people more invested in their society, and this is one of the things that prisons should really be doing as part of rehabilitation? If you feel part of society, you're probably less likely to commit crimes against it.

They could vote before they got banged up - didn't do much to weld them to society in the first place did it?

We could flog them better?

rjsterry

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

http://www.respectyourself.info/

Should prisoners get the vote?

My personal view is NO! As part of society we agree to live within the boundaries of laws/rules. If you commit a crime that warrants a custodial sentence then it has been deemed that your actions place as not wanting to live within those boundaries. As you are outside those boundaries you should lose the right to vote and have an impact on said society.

What do you think?

I think this is an attractive but flawed argument.

Committing any criminal offence means you step outside the boundaries of society's laws/rules. But for some offences you will get a custodial sentence, and for some you will not. I'm not sure anyone (sensible) advocates removing the right to vote upon conviction of any and every crime.

So the issue shifts to a question of degree. Prison is a removal from society, but does a prison sentence truly reflect the worst criminal behaviour? Again, most (sensible) people would regard certain offences as always meriting a prison sentence. But it is quite clear that there is a large grey area below the most serious of offences: eg to take two random examples: physical violence does not always result in a prison sentence, whereas speeding in a car without more can result in a prison sentence. I find this a bit "upside down", and I am not convinced that there is the a consensus view as to which offences in this grey area should merit prison and which should not. Furthermore, in some cases prison can be avoided by genuine or skilful mitigation, which has nothing to do with the severity of the crime.

So you end up with the position that conviction of some criminal offences should result in a loss of the vote, irrespective of the sentence. I find that line - who loses and who retains the vote - almost impossible to draw personally. So whilst it may seem a bit of a kop out, I wouldn't try to draw it at all; I'd leave prisoners with the right vote.

A persuasive argument - you should be a lawyer or something

notsoblue

Greg T wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Don't you think there might be an argument that voting makes people more invested in their society, and this is one of the things that prisons should really be doing as part of rehabilitation? If you feel part of society, you're probably less likely to commit crimes against it.

They could vote before they got banged up - didn't do much to weld them to society in the first place did it?

We could flog them better?

If getting involved in the criminal justice system eventually turns them from criminals who wouldn't ever bother voting to reformed citizens who would see the point in it, then should we really be denying them the opportunity to feel part of society? I don't think everyone in custody is a sociopath, many of them have probably just screwed up and made bad life decisions. I guess its down to one's opinion as to whether you want prisoners punished and rehabilitated or just simply punished.