Winter tyres that won't kill me

bigmat

Put my winter front wheel back on the commuter at the weekend, after a couple of days' wet commuting I have nearly lost the front end three times already . Vittoria Rubinos are terrible when its wet. Each time I have been almost stopped and had to brake reasonably firmly and the tyre just slides sideways. Had a few offs last winter and I'm now thinking I could do with some grippier tyres. I basically need something cheap (wired OK), reasonably puncture resistant but with a decent amount of grip. Need to be sufficiently quick for winter chain gangs etc. Any suggestions?

tgotb

BigMat wrote:

Put my winter front wheel back on the commuter at the weekend, after a couple of days' wet commuting I have nearly lost the front end three times already . Vittoria Rubinos are terrible when its wet. Each time I have been almost stopped and had to brake reasonably firmly and the tyre just slides sideways. Had a few offs last winter and I'm now thinking I could do with some grippier tyres. I basically need something cheap (wired OK), reasonably puncture resistant but with a decent amount of grip. Need to be sufficiently quick for winter chain gangs etc. Any suggestions?

Conti 4 Seasons - purchase from bike-discount.de to make the price a bit more bearable....

daviesee

Agreed on Conti 4 Seasons, currently on offer at Ribble with an extra, extra 10% off for the next 2 days - Beats .de.

Still, I will be considering others suggestions if recommended.....

meanredspider

Funny - I've had no issues at all with the Rubinos - are you sure it's the tyre and not just the conditions? Even the best slicks won't find grip where there isn't any.

I'm using disc brakes too

bigmat

meanredspider wrote:

Funny - I've had no issues at all with the Rubinos - are you sure it's the tyre and not just the conditions? Even the best slicks won't find grip where there isn't any.

I'm using disc brakes too

Mine are the cheaper, beaded ones. Not sure if that makes a difference. They are terrible though. Caused several incidents last winter and I have immediately noticed issues this week. Slightly better at lower pressures, but I don't really want to run them less than 100PSI. Do they not have rain in Italy? My Diamante Pros are also pretty terrible in the wet, although significantly better then the Rubinos. Might have to go German. Are there any decent Schwalbes at that level? The Michelin Krylion replacements any good?

meanredspider

Well I hit nearly 60 MPH on my Rubino Pro folders in the wet - fortunately they gripped as I cornered :shock:
I have locked the rear but, on a road bike with discs, that's inevitable at some point. The front, however, has been fantastic - not even the slightest hint of slippage. You're also the first person I've read that's had the issue (he says, bracing himself for the torrent of other people) which can't be said for Gatorskins (German tyres ) which, if the reports of some riders are to be believed, are positively psychopathic in the wet

bails87

I've got legs like garden canes and even I managed to get my Gatorskins to wheelspin when pulling away from lights in the wet. It was only my MTB honed reflexes that kept me upright when the front slipped out on a RAB. I've now got GP4seasons which are much better.

I haven't tried anything else though...

Headhuunter

BigMat wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Funny - I've had no issues at all with the Rubinos - are you sure it's the tyre and not just the conditions? Even the best slicks won't find grip where there isn't any.

I'm using disc brakes too

Mine are the cheaper, beaded ones. Not sure if that makes a difference. They are terrible though. Caused several incidents last winter and I have immediately noticed issues this week. Slightly better at lower pressures, but I don't really want to run them less than 100PSI. Do they not have rain in Italy? My Diamante Pros are also pretty terrible in the wet, although significantly better then the Rubinos. Might have to go German. Are there any decent Schwalbes at that level? The Michelin Krylion replacements any good?

I've been using the Pro4 Endurance (one of the array of Krylion replacements) since earlier this year and so far so good...

fossyant

Lithion 2 if you want to keep price down. 4 Seasons are very good though.

bobinski

meanredspider wrote:

Well I hit nearly 60 MPH on my Rubino Pro folders in the wet - fortunately they gripped as I cornered :shock:
I have locked the rear but, on a road bike with discs, that's inevitable at some point. The front, however, has been fantastic - not even the slightest hint of slippage. You're also the first person I've read that's had the issue (he says, bracing himself for the torrent of other people) which can't be said for Gatorskins (German tyres ) which, if the reports of some riders are to be believed, are positively psychopathic in the wet

My experience mirrors that of MRS. No slippage in the wet with the Rubinos but some sketchy moments with Gatorskin hardshells, the latter on my commuting bike. I know i am going to have to change the gators for something else but i run an Alfine hub on the commuter and so really need something equally puncture proof.

meanredspider

bobinski wrote:

I know i am going to have to change the gators for something else but i run an Alfine hub on the commuter and so really need something equally puncture proof.

Can you not get Rubinos to fit the commuter? I've found them every bit as puncture-proof as the Gators on my commute where flints and glass chips are the greatest hazard.

phy2sll2

Vredstein Fortezza TripComp?

Thought they were pretty good. Of course the one time I had trouble with them was whenI slipped and broke my hip last winter. Though that may have been poor technique, more than anything else...

UndercoverElephant

MRS - When London gets wet, it makes all of the oil residue come alive again. In normal wet, Rubino Pros are great, in the equivalent of a diesel spill, they are pretty sketchy - but I'm pretty sure most tyres are.

bobinski

meanredspider wrote:

bobinski wrote:

I know i am going to have to change the gators for something else but i run an Alfine hub on the commuter and so really need something equally puncture proof.

Can you not get Rubinos to fit the commuter? I've found them every bit as puncture-proof as the Gators on my commute where flints and glass chips are the greatest hazard.

I could but i doubt they would be as puncture proof and difficult to take the risk with a hub gear-such a faff to the wheel off and back on.

DonDaddyD

Continental GP4000s are superb in the wet. On the commute I'd probably go for GatorSkins for added p-protection or 4seasons if I'm feeling flush.

ShandyH

I can only vouch for one tyre as I only have it on the front but am just about to swap over the rear too. I have the Vredestein Fortezza Tricomp on the front and it's a huge improvement to the Gatorskin Hardshell I had previously; feels far more grippy. I can't say for sure yet but someone posted the following link on a previous thread and the two sections on these tyres were enough for me to give them a try. I think I got them from Ribble for not very much money (about £20 each).

http://cyclingfitness.hubpages.com/hub/ ... his-Winter

Origamist

Ultremo DD or Michelin Optimum are my front tyres of choice in the winter. However, I also drop the pressure down to 85-90psi.

meanredspider

UndercoverElephant wrote:

MRS - When London gets wet, it makes all of the oil residue come alive again. In normal wet, Rubino Pros are great, in the equivalent of a diesel spill, they are pretty sketchy - but I'm pretty sure most tyres are.

Yup - that was kinda my point earlier: NOTHING grips in some conditions and there a risk you buy expensive rubber only to find yourself no better off

phy2sll2

Origamist wrote:

However, I also drop the pressure down to 85-90psi.

Something I've learnt the hard way: tyre pressure does have a big impact on grip.

I used to just pump to max thinking higher pressure = less rolling resistance. Various people suggested that's not necessary (unless you're riding track, perhaps), given the reduction in resistance is really small compared to the improvement in grip. Plus you get a nice cushioned ride.

Of course running lower pressures means you increase the risk of pinch flats. Probably a bit more experimentation required to get the right balance.

For the record, I run my 24mm Conti GP (not GP4000) in all weathers at 80psi. Feels lovely and I haven't lost grip or had a puncture yet...

But that's on a 23mm wide rim, so smaller risk of pinching.

roger_merriman

my commute/road bike I've put Mavic Aksion's on. They are mid weight 255g or so, mid compound 65 road tyres seem to be 60-70, and about twenty pounds.

seem fine, though i suspect for for true wet grip need to lower the pressures, I used to run the front 25mm Marathon plus at 60PSI on the last bike which gave a remarkable amount of grip.

bigmat

I think I'll try reducing pressure before I change tyre. Maybe go down to around 90PSI, wouldn't want to go much lower though as I'm over 80kg. My Ultremo ZX are pretty sure footed even at race pressure (I dropped them to 110 at the weekend so still 10PSI above my Rubinos), even my Diamante which was on the front was 100PSI+ and way better than the Rubino. I guess that's the benefit of grippier race tyres. What I need in an ideal world is a winter tyre with the grip of a race tyre - Vredestein Fortezza or GP4Seasons look like the best bet but I can live with a bit more rolling resistance for the commute so will try reducing the pressure first.

notsoblue

What are the defining properties of a good, grippy, winter tyre?

FoldingJoe

BigMat wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Funny - I've had no issues at all with the Rubinos - are you sure it's the tyre and not just the conditions? Even the best slicks won't find grip where there isn't any.

I'm using disc brakes too

Mine are the cheaper, beaded ones. Not sure if that makes a difference. They are terrible though. Caused several incidents last winter and I have immediately noticed issues this week. Slightly better at lower pressures, but I don't really want to run them less than 100PSI. Do they not have rain in Italy? My Diamante Pros are also pretty terrible in the wet, although significantly better then the Rubinos. Might have to go German. Are there any decent Schwalbes at that level? The Michelin Krylion replacements any good?

+1 - I've got the beaded ones and they are terrible.

+1 to 4 seasons as well. You can get 2, plus 2 inner tubes for just over £60 from Wiggle, which is a pretty good price.

sketchley

FoldingJoe wrote:

BigMat wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Funny - I've had no issues at all with the Rubinos - are you sure it's the tyre and not just the conditions? Even the best slicks won't find grip where there isn't any.

I'm using disc brakes too

Mine are the cheaper, beaded ones. Not sure if that makes a difference. They are terrible though. Caused several incidents last winter and I have immediately noticed issues this week. Slightly better at lower pressures, but I don't really want to run them less than 100PSI. Do they not have rain in Italy? My Diamante Pros are also pretty terrible in the wet, although significantly better then the Rubinos. Might have to go German. Are there any decent Schwalbes at that level? The Michelin Krylion replacements any good?

+1 - I've got the beaded ones and they are terrible.

+1 to 4 seasons as well. You can get 2, plus 2 inner tubes for just over £60 from Wiggle, which is a pretty good price.

+1 to 4 seasons now my tyre of choice, good prices at Ribble today with extra 10% discount code too...

phy2sll2

notsoblue wrote:

What are the defining properties of a good, grippy, winter tyre?

Er... Grippy... At a range of temperatures...

jibberjim

Why do you need more puncture protection in the "winter" anyway? In cities the risks are mostly glass etc. In the North Downs the risks are mostly flint (unlike some rural places where thorns are the main problem and they are seasonal) Roads can be slightly wetter as they don't dry as quickly but there are as pretty much as many wet days in the winter as summer here, so the extra puncture risk in the rain isn't that high.

So grip at low temperatures vs high temperatures seem to be the only thing worth having... And there aren't any that are different for that?

phy2sll2

jibberjim wrote:

So grip at low temperatures vs high temperatures seem to be the only thing worth having... And there aren't any that are different for that?

Isn't that what the compounds of GP4000s, Tricomp etc. are aimed at. Grip down to a certain temp? Maybe I've imagined that...

meanredspider

jibberjim wrote:

Why do you need more puncture protection in the "winter" anyway?

The reasonable theory goes that it's generally wetter in winter and the water lubricates the object through the rubber. Additionally, water & grime tends to "stick" stuff to the tyre giving it several opportunities to puncture the tyre. Other theories that rain washes more grit into the road and that their are less cyclists about to "share" the sharp objects between have also been put forward.

It would be interesting to see if the sale of tyres/inners/patches etc are seasonal.

bigmat

The "winter" thing is a bit of a red herring. I guess I really mean "training" tyre, as in something a bit cheaper and a bit harder wearing. The main reason I have changed wheels and therefore tyres is because my bike has been making all sorts of noises and I wanted to eliminate the front wheel from my enquiries!

daviesee

IMHO you don't want harder wearing.
Harder compounds grip less, especially in the cold.
Ironically, harder compounds are more suited to warmer temperatures.

bigmat

I'm not forking out £80 for a pair of race tyres to commute / go training on a piissing wet night in the middle of November, knowing full well they'll be cut to buggery by spring. I want a training tyre - something that is reasonably cheap, will last a few thousand miles and, as a bonus, I'd like to avoid nearly falling flat on my face every time I have to brake in the wet anywhere near a manhole cover / white line / painted surface etc. I'll try the Rubinos with a bit less pressure and if that doesn't work will try the Vredesteins I think. Cheers all.