I love this thread, thoroughly enjoyed it and you have now helped me settle what my next winter frame is going to be as I was playing with going for a Ti, but will now go for 953 with mudguard stays.
What sort of price has this worked out as? I'm presuming similar to a good Ti frame.
I love this thread, thoroughly enjoyed it and you have now helped me settle what my next winter frame is going to be as I was playing with going for a Ti, but will now go for 953 with mudguard stays.
What sort of price has this worked out as? I'm presuming similar to a good Ti frame.
Are the forks still carbon?
Thanks for the feedback. I think price is similar to Ti, and I think Rourke's actually discount the frame if you order mudguard eyes, which is supported by their advertised pricing:
Reynolds 953 Stainless Oversize, Race Carbon Forks, from £1650
Audax - Road frame geometry, but built with extra brake clearance and mudguard fittings.
Reynolds 953 Oversize Carbon with M/Eyes from £1550
My frame was more expensive since the price varies according to headset and forks selected. I originally went for Campag integrated headset, then changed to Chris King after reading their blurb on why integrated headsets are a bad idea (wear occurs on the headtube where the bearings sit, which is part of the frame and so it can't be replaced). Forks are Ritchey WCS carbon, the most expensive and lightest @300g. All in, it'll cost me the thick end of £5k especially with the custom paint job, I'll try and provide a rough breakdown of costs here shortly.
The guys have been working hard, the frame is now primed ready to take top coats...you can see masking on the rear stays where the finish will be bare stainless.
I originally went for Campag integrated headset, then changed to Chris King after reading their blurb on why integrated headsets are a bad idea (wear occurs on the headtube where the bearings sit, which is part of the frame and so it can't be replaced).
I was in two minds which to go for I have change mine to Chris King after read this it apparently makes the frame a tad lighter as well
I was in two minds which to go for I have change mine to Chris King after read this it apparently makes the frame a tad lighter as well
A separate headset may well be a tad lighter, since the headtube has to be worked on for the integrated headset.
For me, it made sense to keep the frame and headset (which will wear) separate. Logically it makes little sense to "integrate" an expensive item like a frame, with a cheap "disposable" item that will wear like a headset. Its a bit like integrating your car brake pads with the alloy wheels.
Are there cheaper headsets than the Chris King that will suit the 853 frame.Reading the previous posts, it makes sense not to have an integrated headset, especially as i expect to have my Rourke frame for a long time. Looking forward to the next Pics. Cheers.
Here the paint...
- Peal White
- Metallic Black
- I think the other black has some silver in, not sure if both are going to be used, we'll see!
And for teh lining colours:
- Silver
- "Lucifer Sand2" aka titan is the grey
May be Jase is going to use 5 colours not 4, we'll see...I trust him.
I just wanted to clarify the point on using Cannondale's 'geometry'. My Dad and Gareth, who do the measure ups have tried all the jigs and systems for measuring up, but haven' found one they are happy with. As bike builders we are obsessed more with the shape of a bike and how customers sit on bikes than colours, weight etc. When clients visit the shop for a measure up we like to see how people sit on their existing bike currently and how think they should sit (if different) we use actual bikes for that as we have a huge stock of Cannondale, Wilier, Spec, Scott in the shop we either use a Rourke or one of those, which ever fits best. If we can't fit the customer to any stock bike we dry builld a stock frame 99 times out of 100 we swap bars stems etc, on any bike we have in stock. Seeing a real bike with the person sat on it gives us a better idea of balance than sat on a jig with no wheels etc.
In David's case we sat him on a Cannondale to get an idea of seat/tt lengths frame angles then we use our own computer programme to design the actual bike geometry etc.
Sorry for the long winded explaination but like I say were bike shape and ride obsessives! Leave the colours to the customer.
Thanks for your input Jase. My frame angles match those of the CAAD 8 i.e. seat tube is 73.5, head tube is 73. That differs slightly to my Condor 531 which has (I think) 74 seat and around 73 head, but the Condor has a 1" shorter top tube than seat hence the angles need to be different.
I can imagine that, should I have needed a longer or shorter top tube than the stock CAAD 8 geometry, this would be catered for by juggling some angles ad lengths.
I think the Rourke measure up approach is great, since ultimately its how you sit, look and feel on the bike that matters, and using real bikes, whilst being flexible on the design, allows for all factors to be considered. Compared to using jigs, I think its the difference between theory and the real world.
Compared to using jigs, I think its the difference between theory and the real world.
Hmm can't say i agree with that! I would suggest it is simply a case of workmen who have a preference for particular tools. There is no theory and real world here... just fit and doesn't fit. Preferred and not preferred.
Sorry but i find this kind of (apparent) brand/purchase affirming conjecture a little strange and illogical. Clearly you can attain a good fit whether you use a jig or a bike. There is no right or wrong so long as you have the correct skills to use either tool well - which no doubt the Rourke guys posses!
Close up of the fab colour scheme I asked Jason to do, its a black/white take on a blue/white scheme Jason did recently on a track bike. Brain said he preferred mine to the blue once the frame is made up into a bike
The rear wheel and gears, a Record RD is fitted as a temporary measure until a Super Record is available from the distributor (I know, having to slum it). Cassette is 12-27 Chorus, chain is Chorus too, rest is Super Record.
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What sort of price has this worked out as? I'm presuming similar to a good Ti frame.
Are the forks still carbon?
Ritchey WCS, in "wet black" with the white lettering. Bars are the Logic IIs with the flat part in the drops, stem is 120mm.
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Thanks for the feedback. I think price is similar to Ti, and I think Rourke's actually discount the frame if you order mudguard eyes, which is supported by their advertised pricing:
Reynolds 953 Stainless Oversize, Race Carbon Forks, from £1650
Audax - Road frame geometry, but built with extra brake clearance and mudguard fittings.
Reynolds 953 Oversize Carbon with M/Eyes from £1550
My frame was more expensive since the price varies according to headset and forks selected. I originally went for Campag integrated headset, then changed to Chris King after reading their blurb on why integrated headsets are a bad idea (wear occurs on the headtube where the bearings sit, which is part of the frame and so it can't be replaced). Forks are Ritchey WCS carbon, the most expensive and lightest @300g. All in, it'll cost me the thick end of £5k especially with the custom paint job, I'll try and provide a rough breakdown of costs here shortly.
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I was in two minds which to go for I have change mine to Chris King after read this it apparently makes the frame a tad lighter as well
A separate headset may well be a tad lighter, since the headtube has to be worked on for the integrated headset.
For me, it made sense to keep the frame and headset (which will wear) separate. Logically it makes little sense to "integrate" an expensive item like a frame, with a cheap "disposable" item that will wear like a headset. Its a bit like integrating your car brake pads with the alloy wheels.
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- Peal White
- Metallic Black
- I think the other black has some silver in, not sure if both are going to be used, we'll see!
And for teh lining colours:
- Silver
- "Lucifer Sand2" aka titan is the grey
May be Jase is going to use 5 colours not 4, we'll see...I trust him.
Find me on Strava
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Road - Dolan Preffisio
MTB - On-One Inbred
I have no idea what's going on here.
Summer B,man Team Carbon LE#222
Winter Alan Top Cross
All rounder Spec. Allez.
Thanks also for the nice comments.
I just wanted to clarify the point on using Cannondale's 'geometry'. My Dad and Gareth, who do the measure ups have tried all the jigs and systems for measuring up, but haven' found one they are happy with. As bike builders we are obsessed more with the shape of a bike and how customers sit on bikes than colours, weight etc. When clients visit the shop for a measure up we like to see how people sit on their existing bike currently and how think they should sit (if different) we use actual bikes for that as we have a huge stock of Cannondale, Wilier, Spec, Scott in the shop we either use a Rourke or one of those, which ever fits best. If we can't fit the customer to any stock bike we dry builld a stock frame 99 times out of 100 we swap bars stems etc, on any bike we have in stock. Seeing a real bike with the person sat on it gives us a better idea of balance than sat on a jig with no wheels etc.
In David's case we sat him on a Cannondale to get an idea of seat/tt lengths frame angles then we use our own computer programme to design the actual bike geometry etc.
Sorry for the long winded explaination but like I say were bike shape and ride obsessives! Leave the colours to the customer.
Regards Jase.
I can imagine that, should I have needed a longer or shorter top tube than the stock CAAD 8 geometry, this would be catered for by juggling some angles ad lengths.
I think the Rourke measure up approach is great, since ultimately its how you sit, look and feel on the bike that matters, and using real bikes, whilst being flexible on the design, allows for all factors to be considered. Compared to using jigs, I think its the difference between theory and the real world.
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Hmm can't say i agree with that! I would suggest it is simply a case of workmen who have a preference for particular tools. There is no theory and real world here... just fit and doesn't fit. Preferred and not preferred.
Sorry but i find this kind of (apparent) brand/purchase affirming conjecture a little strange and illogical. Clearly you can attain a good fit whether you use a jig or a bike. There is no right or wrong so long as you have the correct skills to use either tool well - which no doubt the Rourke guys posses!
Chris doing final fitting of the wheels (I brought them with me), saddle and seat post.
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ABCC Cycling Coach
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