Braking ????

boh67

Listening to the 360 cycling podcast this morning. They were taking about braking and were saying that you should always use the front brake as this gives the best stopping power. I always thought this was a bit dangerous and would be better using the rear brake. I'm confused :oops:

lc1981

I can't remember where I read this, but someone made the very good point that if it's true, as we're all taught as children, that using the front brake is a bad idea, then why do bikes have front brakes? Mind you, I wouldn't say that using only the front brake is a good idea either! It all depends on speed and the situation, really. There are some useful tips here.

peat

Basically, when you decelerate, the mass moves forward onto the front wheel thus it has the best amount of grip of the two wheels. The rear wheel will just be hovering under heavy braking so will just lock and you will be on your arse.

ad_snow

greentea you definitely got out of bed the wrong side this morning...

elderone

on motorbikes you always use front brakes first thats why they have 2 discs up front and one at the back..as some one has said weight goes forward so best grip at the front.dont know enough about bikes cycles to be accurate but i ride using front brake as main one in the dry and equal in damp/wet.

marz

Simple test, ride at walking pace, brake hard with the back brake. What happens? Maybe wheel lock, skid, stop eventually. Repeat with the front brake. What happens? Wheel may lock, rear wheel may lift, stop immediately.

The front brake is where most of your braking takes place. The rear brake is handy for controlling speed down long descents, but pretty useless in an emergency stop.

simon_masterson

If in doubt, use the front brake. The rear is useful for controlling the rear wheel whilst cornering at speed and things like that, but not for hard stopping. I barely ever use it.

Bozman

I only use my back in the wet or during a pant fill situation, i've ridden motorbikes for years too and i've never had to change the rear brake pads because i hardly ever use it.

BigLights

It's absolutely true that in a straight line (you shouldn't really be braking when turning anyway), the front brake is what should be doing the work. From experience on the motorbike (i've done the whole IAM/advanced training stuff), you stop with the front brake and use the back brake to stabilise the bike and keep the wheel stuck to the ground. It is less pronounced on a bicycle (on a motorbike the engine is at the front and all your weight is directed to the front) but the physics remain essentially the same.

Also, counterintuitively, the most effective grip for accelerating/decelerating is when the wheel is turning 10% faster/slower than the vehicle's road speed, not the actual road speed.

hipshot

As usual Sheldon has the answer.

http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

TakeTurns

You're not supposed to fully grab the front brake. Practice with it and use it in combination with the rear. Make sure to keep your weight at the back of the bike when doing so. It's said that you should put 70% effort into the front and 30% rear.

Something like that. :roll:

boh67

Thanks for the constructive replys.

pinarellokid

i really like using the front brake but it does make me a little worried when its wet.

i would brake on the straight then turn for the corner with no or only rear applied..

turning and pressing the front brake is asking for trouble
especially if its wet or your rolling over grids or painted lines on the road.

lotus49

You should usually use both brakes but with caution.

Generally you should apply the rear brake slightly before the front but as it is the front that is most effective because of the weight transfer, you cannot stop quickly without using it. If you need to stop in a hurry (which is something to be avoided if at all possible) apply both at the same time but apply more pressure on the front only.

If all you need to do is moderate your speed slightly, you can use the back on its own.

Experiment at low speed. Excessive pressure on the back brake will lock the wheel but in a way that usually results in a controllable slide. Excessive pressure on the front brake will either throw you over the handlebars (like doing a stoppie on a motorbike) or will lock the front wheel in which case you will usually be off the bike before you know what's happening.

All of this is set out clearly in John Franklin's excellent book Cyclecraft, available at all good book shops.

rubyrider

I must say I am nervous of the front brake - especially since I managed to do a front wheel skid (and off :shock: ) on a motorbike in the wet.

Anyway I came upon this article which I thought was great. You have to read a way down to get to the bit about braking, but I found it all interesting, although I have no desire to corner at great speed

http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_factsheets/constant/descend.htm

Edit: I should mention the article is primarily about cornering and braking on a descent

greentea

CiB wrote:

Buckie2k5 wrote:

can you not take the hint that after every post you write there is someone calling you an ars*. No one is interested in your alternative negative comments and trolling.

Quite. Greentea, it's one thing to come on here and have a bit of a go but you're just overboard to the point where it's not even funny after the first couple of times. You've misjudged it. You want to be aiming for this sort of response, not flagging yourself up as a berk in the way that you are.

A commuter wrote:

That's the thing I like about this bloke. You can never be sure what his position will be on any issue but you can be sure it will be well written, make perfect sense irrespective of whether or not one agrees with it and have just the right amount of 'grumpy old codger' about it.

Alright, so you're saying im just a 'bit too hard' on the newbies then yeh? and i need to 'soften' it a bit, that right?

Maybe i am a bit hard and to the point, i apologise. I'll reign it in a bit then.

declan1

My friend (not a cyclist) keeps telling me not to use my front brake as I'll 'fly over the handlebars' every time I brake. He doesn't realise that when he brakes using only his rear brake, the wheel locks up and he doesn't stop very quickly.

In other words, use your front brake to primarily stop you. I only use my rear brake to rub off a little bit of speed, for full-power stops or when descending I'll alternate between front/rear to let each rim cool down a little.

Sprool

always use front brake = better stopping power, but exclusively using front brake only = trip over handlebars

CiB

Sprool wrote:

always use front brake = better stopping power, but exclusively using front brake only = trip over handlebars

Nonsense. It's all about shifting weight, and if you've got a handful of front brake it doesn't matter how much back you use it won't affect your going over the bars, your weight balance will do that.

In a straight line in the dry with your weight shifted back the more front you use the more grip you have as all of your + bike weight is pushing the tyre into the tarmac. On dry tarmac in a straight line it's almost impossible to lock the front - you'll go over the bars before that happens, hence shifting the weight back. There is a school of thought that suggests using only the front as the rear wheel should be just off the floor if you're doing it right.

In the wet or in a corner the chance of the front wheel sliding is exponentially increased, so you use less front and more rear. How much? As much as you need of each, which only you can know in any given circumstance. It's one that you come to know by experience, not by reading on the net that it's 73% front & 27% rear all the time. And braking in corners is a bad plan usually so is best avoided

daxplusplus

CiB wrote:

On dry tarmac in a straight line it's almost impossible to lock the front - you'll go over the bars before that happens, hence shifting the weight back. There is a school of thought that suggests using only the front as the rear wheel should be just off the floor if you're doing it right.

I can verify this .. cycling down the Wandsworth one system I managed to get into the situation where i realised that the lorry I was drafting was slowing down very quickly. I slammed the front brake on, back wheel in the air and, hey presto, I'm doing a monster rolling stoppie in rush hour traffic. I can distinctly remember thinking "If I let off the front brake I'm going to go into the back of the lorry but if I put any more force through the front brake I'm going over the handle bars" I basically modulated the power going through the front brake to balance between those two, distinctly unpleasent outcomes.

The lorry started to speed up again, I let go of the brakes, my back wheel came down and I carried on into work.

So .. the lesson from this? Don't ride too close to vehicles. And also in an emergency braking situations, in the dry and in a straight line, the back wheel does not come into it .. it's all about the front.

In the wet, and potentially slippy, conditions - it's different and the lesson there is: slow down becuase the reality is that you have the real potential for sod all in the way of good braking. I tend to rely on road postion, awareness of what's going on around me and thinking about where I want to bail out rather than just rely on the brakes.

Sprool

is it true that American cyclists have rear and front brakes the other way round?

keef66

Yep, they have the front brake at the back and the back brake at the front. Unlike the rest of mainland Europe where they simply swap left and right levers

NewTTer

Sprool wrote:

is it true that American cyclists have rear and front brakes the other way round?

We are the ones in the minority, most other countries have the brakes the other way round, ie front brake on the left lever.
Though to be honest beign a life long motorcyclist I couldnt ride like that and would have to change it to the right for the front brake.

racingcondor

I think it's more that the British wire the brakes up the other way to everyone else but yes, brake hard on a bike built up by an American and chances are you'll just lock up the rear wheel thinking your using the front.

I think the thread has basically run it's course but I'll add one thing that should be noted. Try not to brake in a corner (adjust your speed, then reach the corner) and if you do use the rear brake more. If you find you need to brake hard in a corner then you're better off getting the bike upright and then braking if you can.