Jan Ullrich - Four time TDF winner!
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Why not Jan. he has every right to claim the win and the money that goes with it. I hope they present the jerseys to him soon.
Okay he was stripped of his last podium place, but the ones before still stands and were not taken away. So he was not found guilty at those events so shouldn't he receive the benefits.
Perhaps he could then buy Lance a beer and toast the irony in it all.0 -
ASO will not re-allocate the wins.
It's important for there to be no winner.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
What's the justification to apply the rules differently for these years?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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This Friday the UCI meets to decide, should be fascinating0
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TailWindHome wrote:What's the justification to apply the rules differently for these years?
I'm not sure what the 'usual' rules are, but given that doping was so prevalent throughout GC in that era, how can you award the wins to any rider with any confidence they rode clean? It's a f*cking minefield. The safest thing to do is just not award them to anyone.0 -
I think they should offer it to the highest placed rider willing to claim he was riding clean - would be interesting to see whose neck is the brassiest. Those riders could then be subjected to the same "witch hunt" Armstrong has had to deal with.0
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Understood. But I'm not at all comfortable with completely abandoning due process based on suspicion no matter how strong that suspicion might be.The Mad Rapper wrote:TailWindHome wrote:What's the justification to apply the rules differently for these years?
I'm not sure what the 'usual' rules are, but given that doping was so prevalent throughout GC in that era, how can you award the wins to any rider with any confidence they rode clean? It's a f*cking minefield. The safest thing to do is just not award them to anyone.0 -
I'm not sure they can legally ask Lance for the prize money back and then not give it to whoever finished 2nd and so on.
At the end of the day, this was a professional race with professional prizes. As it appears to me, Jan is entitled to the money even though he was disqualified from other events.
You can't hold back money just because you believe he may have cheated as well. The same level of proof has to be shown that has caught Lance out.
And if Jan is proven guilty and stripped of the Win, then the process has to start all over again...0 -
I can't see why Kloden shouldn't be awarded the 2005 tour. He has yet to be caught (but may be soon) and it is within the statute of limitations. The fact he hasn't claimed it though makes him look very guilty, or like a guy who doesn't want to win - a look he managed for his whole career. I realise not many agree with this though0
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Probably more a case that no rider is interested in winning years later like that (you only have to listen to Andy's comments to realise that).0
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What, FFSake.VerwoodAsh wrote:Why not Jan. he has every right to claim the win and the money that goes with it. I hope they present the jerseys to him soon.
I want (if I could) the whole results of Telekom removed.
Bjarne Riis went to that team after years getting nowhere with Conconi/Ferrari and suddenly with East German Juice he could outclimb anyone in the peloton. (you should have been there in 1995 as he grovelled up the mountains with eyes bulging)(not a pretty sight)
Zabel won several MSR's and 6 TDF green jersey's and finally the team fessed up.
The Festina affair came as a result of them trying to level the playing field with Ulrich's Telekom.
The first report I read in 1998 said that Willy Voet was on his way from Germany to the Irish TDF start. (due to the Football World Cup Final in Paris)
I was astounded at the time that a Belgian should get stopped at that Motorway French border crossing when thousands cross there every day for Work and shopping.
My interpretation at the time was Telekom had notified the French Police about a Festina Team car with drugs obtained in East Germany.
The wonderful thing that year was it rained with cold temperatures and Ulrich (poor darling) had trouble getting over the Galibier while Marco just rode away.
The Crouts didn't allow for that.
Please Note, there is no Magenta (pink) seen around the Pro Tour these days. :twisted:Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
I think some people are missing the point here and Iain and Rapper are correct.
It is obvious to a blind man that a lot of the runner's up were also bang at it. It's no use saying "ah yes but they weren't caught" because we forget that the reason this has all come about is not because of a huge cache of Armstrong Positive tests being unearthed but the compelling testimony of his team mates.
we don't really want to be here again at some point in the future when all of Telekom come pouring out their hearts do we?0 -
love Ullrich but Lance Armstrong was better. They all used same bikes, methods, mentality0
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You can think of it as a memorial to collective guilt, including those few riders who may not have been doping but knew what was happening and turned a blind eye - why should they ultimately benefit from omerta?Yellow Peril wrote:I think some people are missing the point here and Iain and Rapper are correct.
It is obvious to a blind man that a lot of the runner's up were also bang at it. It's no use saying "ah yes but they weren't caught" because we forget that the reason this has all come about is not because of a huge cache of Armstrong Positive tests being unearthed but the compelling testimony of his team mates.
we don't really want to be here again at some point in the future when all of Telekom come pouring out their hearts do we?0 -
LA is getting all he deserves. I'm certainly no fan.
In 1999 I thought wow good on you. All you've been through........and all that.
2000 - gosh he's done it again.
2001 - this is unbelievable? Surely......
2002 - 2005 - tedium, repetitive, unrealistic. This, I find most unforgivable, I knew nothing really about doping at that time.
That said, I saw him winning the race on TV, and I can't see any point in adjusting results. He beat the competitors, he beat the race, he beat the doping controls and he beat the sport. It's not nice but it is now part of professional cycling history.
The name has earned plenty if notoriety. There is no point in pretending it didn't happen.
An * will do for the record books. And if the winnings are recoverable then go for it!0 -
deejay wrote:Zabel won several MSR's and 6 TDF green jersey's and finally the team fessed up.
Don't forget Zabel just tried EPO once and then didn't use it because he didn't like it. Not everyone on Telekom was a cheating dirty doper :?0 -
BigMat wrote:I think they should offer it to the highest placed rider willing to claim he was riding clean - would be interesting to see whose neck is the brassiest. Those riders could then be subjected to the same "witch hunt" Armstrong has had to deal with.
I really like this idea....We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
deejay wrote:My interpretation at the time was Telekom had notified the French Police about a Festina Team car with drugs obtained in East Germany.
Amazing if true! I liked the German fans in an incredulous way, I recall half way up the Col du Madeleine one bend being entirely Pink for about 50 meters with a DJ standing behind a full twin deck disco set up on a trailer playing Euro Pop at full tilt at about 10 in the morning, madness, I couldnt believe my eyes or ears: I look back on these years akin to the way I look back on Group B Rally Cars!
I imagine the entry rules have a clause regards repayment of winnings, in which case Lance would owe a lot of money. Bare in mind it would have been shared amongst his team mates at the time, all of which appear to be the ones testifying against him. So they should also give there share back right? All Lance has to do is say he shared it ;-)
I dont think money will come into this0 -
I always knew he had it in him "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
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