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Drugs in other sports and the media.

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  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,178
    awavey said:

    awavey said:

    considering how much its reported it was costing HSBC, Im surprised it was agreed even if the bank were doing well, youd think youd be getting more bang for buck in terms of exposure for chucking 10million quid at BC every 4 years.

    The numbers involved at HSBC are in the billions...
    well maybe so...but if they were happy to spend millions on just a few static boards,kit logos,and the occasional fun ride...maybe that explains how they ended up with the kind of problems theyve got now :)

    who knows, Sky apparently paid somewhere between 4 times as much to begin to roughly the same kind of amount by the end, but Id argue Sky had far more "market activation" in buzz word terms through their association, who even knew HSBC offered free British Cycling membership to account holders, theyve never exactly promoted their association.
    It's symbolic isn't it - if you are making thousands of people redundant you can't be seen to be splashing money around on things like that, even if it is peanuts to them.
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 5,243

    awavey said:

    awavey said:

    considering how much its reported it was costing HSBC, Im surprised it was agreed even if the bank were doing well, youd think youd be getting more bang for buck in terms of exposure for chucking 10million quid at BC every 4 years.

    The numbers involved at HSBC are in the billions...
    well maybe so...but if they were happy to spend millions on just a few static boards,kit logos,and the occasional fun ride...maybe that explains how they ended up with the kind of problems theyve got now :)

    who knows, Sky apparently paid somewhere between 4 times as much to begin to roughly the same kind of amount by the end, but Id argue Sky had far more "market activation" in buzz word terms through their association, who even knew HSBC offered free British Cycling membership to account holders, theyve never exactly promoted their association.
    It's symbolic isn't it - if you are making thousands of people redundant you can't be seen to be splashing money around on things like that, even if it is peanuts to them.
    Exactly! Where I work we made big redundancies a few years ago. Had to pull the sponsorship of a major national team as a result, with the CEO making explicit reference to it during presentations. We were back sponsoring the same team again a couple of years later once our situation improved.
  • awaveyawavey Posts: 2,368
    yes Im sure its as much about "optics" as the marketing bods like to call it given HSBC slashing staff, as it is anything else, just 10million seems alot for what theyve got out of it IMO

    anyway back OT hammer thrower banned for 4 years for giving false information on his whereabouts "https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/51649229
  • *Happy dance*

    Sun Yang, Chinese swimmer, banned for 8 years. About frickin' time.
    Open O-1.0 Open One+ BMC TE29 Titus Racer X Ti Giant MCM One Cannondale Prophet Lefty Cannondale Super V SL Cove Handjob Cervelo RS
  • amrushtonamrushton Posts: 1,040
    he had some 'form'. Prob one of the few to get caught. They normally vanish after a couple of gold medals
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 22,993
    Can you swim through Schadenfreude?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 3,029
    Top athletes to be charged with doping offences?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/51671615
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 8,842
    Roaneo at it again. Does he have an agenda perchance?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/51989116
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 8,842
    Not the most pressing of things in these v strange times.

    However, listening to the BBC MOTD podcast with Lineker, Shearer and Wright, rather good actually, the episode on Top 10 Premier League Managers... When discussing Arsene Wenger's intro to Arsenal in the 90s, Ian Wright launches into this long recount of how he introduced 'vitamin injections' and 'tablets' which made them so much fitter inside oh just a few weeks, how he and other of the more mature players would visit a clinic in France for treatments various....

    Both Lineker and Shearer press the 'oi suspicious' button but Wright just keeps on going.

    Nothing to see there, not at all. Dan! Dan! Wherefore art thou?
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    orraloon said:

    Not the most pressing of things in these v strange times.

    However, listening to the BBC MOTD podcast with Lineker, Shearer and Wright, rather good actually, the episode on Top 10 Premier League Managers... When discussing Arsene Wenger's intro to Arsenal in the 90s, Ian Wright launches into this long recount of how he introduced 'vitamin injections' and 'tablets' which made them so much fitter inside oh just a few weeks, how he and other of the more mature players would visit a clinic in France for treatments various....

    Both Lineker and Shearer press the 'oi suspicious' button but Wright just keeps on going.

    Nothing to see there, not at all. Dan! Dan! Wherefore art thou?


    To be fair to Wenger though, he's been the one manger over the years who has consistently tried to get football to take doping seriously.

    For example 2004: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/wenger-suspects-imports-of-doping-27488.html

    And 2015: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/10/arsene-wenger-football-doping-arsenal
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • sherersherer Posts: 2,450
    I think, but could be wrong, blood spinning and other dodgy practices for recovery are allowed

    Wenger has been vocal on this, whether that was because of inside information, being overtaken by other clubs, or because he wouldn’t cross that line, but would go up to it is anyone’s guess
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,087
    But football's a skill based game so why would they bother with such measures to improve fitness and stamina? I'd better add a 😉
  • philbar72philbar72 Posts: 2,228
    Pross said:

    But football's a skill based game so why would they bother with such measures to improve fitness and stamina? I'd better add a 😉

    am I right in thinking some of the great spanish team of around 2006 -2012 or the Juve team of around the year 2000 were practitioners of really good orange juice, or other vitamins...

    not sure about systemic doping?
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,433
    It is purely coincidental that the Spanish courts hid Ferarri’s client list of course....
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • sherersherer Posts: 2,450
    philbar72 said:

    Pross said:

    But football's a skill based game so why would they bother with such measures to improve fitness and stamina? I'd better add a 😉

    am I right in thinking some of the great spanish team of around 2006 -2012 or the Juve team of around the year 2000 were practitioners of really good orange juice, or other vitamins...

    not sure about systemic doping?
    Juve and Zidane were found guilty. Barca and Madrid were rumoured to visit Fuentes and Ferrari .

    This shows the issues with NADAs, why would they want to investigate their own country and bring shame on a nation ?

    Some do, although i think even the famous USADA \ Armstrong case was more a personal vendetta
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,665
    pblakeney said:

    It is purely coincidental that the Spanish courts hid Ferarri’s client list of course....

    Far be it for me to defend Ferrari, but I don't think anyone has ever had a copy of his client list. I certainly don't recall any Spanish court having hid it as claimed, so citation needed.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    edited April 2020
    andyp said:

    pblakeney said:

    It is purely coincidental that the Spanish courts hid Ferarri’s client list of course....

    Far be it for me to defend Ferrari, but I don't think anyone has ever had a copy of his client list. I certainly don't recall any Spanish court having hid it as claimed, so citation needed.

    I also don't think Ferrari has ever been linked to Puerto (or football for that matter). He was near enough exclusive to Armstrong and his team at that time.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,433
    andyp said:

    pblakeney said:

    It is purely coincidental that the Spanish courts hid Ferarri’s client list of course....

    Far be it for me to defend Ferrari, but I don't think anyone has ever had a copy of his client list. I certainly don't recall any Spanish court having hid it as claimed, so citation needed.
    Probably Fuentes then. I am working from memory, not Google and this is not a court of law. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,157
    RichN95. said:

    orraloon said:

    Not the most pressing of things in these v strange times.

    However, listening to the BBC MOTD podcast with Lineker, Shearer and Wright, rather good actually, the episode on Top 10 Premier League Managers... When discussing Arsene Wenger's intro to Arsenal in the 90s, Ian Wright launches into this long recount of how he introduced 'vitamin injections' and 'tablets' which made them so much fitter inside oh just a few weeks, how he and other of the more mature players would visit a clinic in France for treatments various....

    Both Lineker and Shearer press the 'oi suspicious' button but Wright just keeps on going.

    Nothing to see there, not at all. Dan! Dan! Wherefore art thou?


    To be fair to Wenger though, he's been the one manger over the years who has consistently tried to get football to take doping seriously.

    For example 2004: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/wenger-suspects-imports-of-doping-27488.html

    And 2015: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/10/arsene-wenger-football-doping-arsenal
    *Disclosure: I'm an Arsenal fan*

    Arsene brought vitamin injections and creatine injections with him. There wasn't the same needle aversion back in those days (even in cycling). Worth noting that the summer he won his first trophy Pantani was winning the Festina edition TdF. It was a loooong time ago. He dropped the creatine when it looked like players were bulking up too much and getting injured and less mobile. If you look at early years henry V later years you can see him drop some upper body muscle, there was a period when he was seriously built.

    He's talked publicly about players that came from Italy having dubious blood measurements (the implication that it was team led, not individual players).

    Oh and in 2006 we lost a Champions League final to a superb Barcelona team who may have been implicated in Puerto. I've got a few friends that think there should be an asterix by that result.

    Meanwhile, one of football's most celebrated managers had a couple of nandrolone positives in his career....

    http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2017/04/25/sharapova-guardiola-doping-darkness-and-light-250401/
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • WheelspinnerWheelspinner Posts: 5,389
    Yet another Kenyan marathon runner busted - Daniel Wanjiru.

    Open O-1.0 Open One+ BMC TE29 Titus Racer X Ti Giant MCM One Cannondale Prophet Lefty Cannondale Super V SL Cove Handjob Cervelo RS
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,790 Lives Here

    RichN95. said:

    orraloon said:

    Not the most pressing of things in these v strange times.

    However, listening to the BBC MOTD podcast with Lineker, Shearer and Wright, rather good actually, the episode on Top 10 Premier League Managers... When discussing Arsene Wenger's intro to Arsenal in the 90s, Ian Wright launches into this long recount of how he introduced 'vitamin injections' and 'tablets' which made them so much fitter inside oh just a few weeks, how he and other of the more mature players would visit a clinic in France for treatments various....

    Both Lineker and Shearer press the 'oi suspicious' button but Wright just keeps on going.

    Nothing to see there, not at all. Dan! Dan! Wherefore art thou?


    To be fair to Wenger though, he's been the one manger over the years who has consistently tried to get football to take doping seriously.

    For example 2004: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/wenger-suspects-imports-of-doping-27488.html

    And 2015: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/10/arsene-wenger-football-doping-arsenal
    *Disclosure: I'm an Arsenal fan*

    Arsene brought vitamin injections and creatine injections with him. There wasn't the same needle aversion back in those days (even in cycling). Worth noting that the summer he won his first trophy Pantani was winning the Festina edition TdF. It was a loooong time ago. He dropped the creatine when it looked like players were bulking up too much and getting injured and less mobile. If you look at early years henry V later years you can see him drop some upper body muscle, there was a period when he was seriously built.

    He's talked publicly about players that came from Italy having dubious blood measurements (the implication that it was team led, not individual players).

    Oh and in 2006 we lost a Champions League final to a superb Barcelona team who may have been implicated in Puerto. I've got a few friends that think there should be an asterix by that result.

    Meanwhile, one of football's most celebrated managers had a couple of nandrolone positives in his career....

    http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2017/04/25/sharapova-guardiola-doping-darkness-and-light-250401/
    I have some vague memory when I still followed football closely of Arsenal having a tonne of injuries all the time in the mid '00s and always suspected it was to do with not having a doping regime.

    I should add since this is football I have no horse in the Arsenal race and find the club and their fanbase amazingly irritating.
  • jimmythecuckoojimmythecuckoo Posts: 4,547
    What is it with people not really having as much interest in football nowadays?

    I am totally over it. I was an Arsenal fan as well from the late 1970s but just moved on from the game.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,433

    What is it with people not really having as much interest in football nowadays?

    Overload. Just goes to prove that you can have too much of a good thing. Remember how special cup final day was? That's because it was one of the very few games shown live.

    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458

    What is it with people not really having as much interest in football nowadays?


    They got old and had other things to do. Kids and young people are as into it as ever. Probably more so.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,790 Lives Here

    What is it with people not really having as much interest in football nowadays?

    I am totally over it. I was an Arsenal fan as well from the late 1970s but just moved on from the game.

    For me it was mainly that none of it is on terrestrial anymore, other than the FA cup which no-one gives a monkey's about anymore.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    edited April 2020

    What is it with people not really having as much interest in football nowadays?

    I am totally over it. I was an Arsenal fan as well from the late 1970s but just moved on from the game.


    For me it was mainly that none of it is on terrestrial anymore, other than the FA cup which no-one gives a monkey's about anymore.
    But here was never really a time when there was loads of live football on terrestrial TV. Only 1988-1992 when ITV showed a game every Sunday. And it's been 28 years since Sky took over.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,790 Lives Here
    RichN95. said:

    What is it with people not really having as much interest in football nowadays?

    I am totally over it. I was an Arsenal fan as well from the late 1970s but just moved on from the game.


    For me it was mainly that none of it is on terrestrial anymore, other than the FA cup which no-one gives a monkey's about anymore.
    But here was never really a time when there was loads of live football on terrestrial TV. Only 1988-1992 when ITV showed a game every Sunday. And it's been 28 years since Sky took over.
    It's more the European football. I absolutely loved watching those. Made it worth following MOTD.
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,157

    What is it with people not really having as much interest in football nowadays?

    I am totally over it. I was an Arsenal fan as well from the late 1970s but just moved on from the game.

    Noooooooooo! You brought me here from an Arsenal message board!

    But as for the question, I'm not nearly as emotionally invested in Arsenal as I used to be, a factor of age/lifestyle and possibly the money takeover of football. I'm happy we aren't a billionaire's life-sized Subbuteo team, but I'd happily go back to the days when it wasn't all about money, back to Highbury...
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,157

    RichN95. said:

    orraloon said:

    Not the most pressing of things in these v strange times.

    However, listening to the BBC MOTD podcast with Lineker, Shearer and Wright, rather good actually, the episode on Top 10 Premier League Managers... When discussing Arsene Wenger's intro to Arsenal in the 90s, Ian Wright launches into this long recount of how he introduced 'vitamin injections' and 'tablets' which made them so much fitter inside oh just a few weeks, how he and other of the more mature players would visit a clinic in France for treatments various....

    Both Lineker and Shearer press the 'oi suspicious' button but Wright just keeps on going.

    Nothing to see there, not at all. Dan! Dan! Wherefore art thou?


    To be fair to Wenger though, he's been the one manger over the years who has consistently tried to get football to take doping seriously.

    For example 2004: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/wenger-suspects-imports-of-doping-27488.html

    And 2015: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/10/arsene-wenger-football-doping-arsenal
    *Disclosure: I'm an Arsenal fan*

    Arsene brought vitamin injections and creatine injections with him. There wasn't the same needle aversion back in those days (even in cycling). Worth noting that the summer he won his first trophy Pantani was winning the Festina edition TdF. It was a loooong time ago. He dropped the creatine when it looked like players were bulking up too much and getting injured and less mobile. If you look at early years henry V later years you can see him drop some upper body muscle, there was a period when he was seriously built.

    He's talked publicly about players that came from Italy having dubious blood measurements (the implication that it was team led, not individual players).

    Oh and in 2006 we lost a Champions League final to a superb Barcelona team who may have been implicated in Puerto. I've got a few friends that think there should be an asterix by that result.

    Meanwhile, one of football's most celebrated managers had a couple of nandrolone positives in his career....

    http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2017/04/25/sharapova-guardiola-doping-darkness-and-light-250401/
    I have some vague memory when I still followed football closely of Arsenal having a tonne of injuries all the time in the mid '00s and always suspected it was to do with not having a doping regime.

    I should add since this is football I have no horse in the Arsenal race and find the club and their fanbase amazingly irritating.
    We have an incredibly irritating fanbase. We're the worst (at least that's what I'll believe, in the same way I believe that pundits and refs are biased against us). And yes, the injury load (which is *still* awful) has been put down to not doping properly. At least the part of how long it take players come back fro injury looks like it could be linked. Actual injuries could have more to getting six shades of sh*t kicked out of us up and down the country, to the pundits comments of "don't like it up 'em, soft Southern pansies" etc.

    PS - bias is a product of lazy narrative. It's not that people hate us and are biased in that way, it's that people reach for the easiest narrative. That's why it can apply to multiple clubs. I hear it in matches where "falls over too easily even if there was contact" turns into "petulant revenge foul" in seconds if a player tries to protect themself.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
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