So what long term good has come about from 'Lancegate'

DonDaddyD
DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
edited October 2012 in Commuting chat
I'm still waiting....

Lance is accused of doping, bullying and bribery.
He doesn't contest these accusations and is promptly banned for life and stripped of his titles from 1998 onwards.
A bunch of long time sponsors part ways with him. (Nike and Trek being the biggest).
He steps down as Chairman of his charity. (I can't see how it can continue in its current capacity)

A bunch of other cyclists retire.
Lemond and Landis will feel vindicated.
Sky make their team sign a promise.
Rabobank pulls out of cycling.

What long term good has this achieved? Has the UCI, can the UCI admit their mistakes? Will they put in place stricter doping rules and sanctions on teams and riders? What has changed for the better? Will any far reaching lessons be learned?

How does cycling move forward from this? Especially as it seems all so fractious.

When this dies down I am getting the impression that nothing will really be taken onboard and that there will still be those who will continue to look for new more advanced and less detectable ways to cheat.
Food Chain number = 4

A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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Comments

  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,313
    Pro Race?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,337
    edited October 2012
    Long term good?

    We know what a fraud Armstrong is (EDIT: and many others around him - he's just the most high profile). But more importantly, we/anti-doping authorities have a better understanding of the lengths people will go to to cheat, and conceal that cheating, so will be able to deal with it more effectively.

    The sense I got from that R5Live documentary was that people knew there was doping going on, but were not fully aware of the scale of the problem, and the methods being used to evade detection and silence any critics. Knowing how 'they' did it is very important.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Marco Panettone
    Marco Panettone Posts: 32
    The biggest rider the sport has ever seen has been taken down, along with those with him. The UCI are shown to be at best incompetent, at worst corrupt. There HAVE to be changes. Sponsors pulling out show that things MUST change for the sport to continue.

    Don't believe this is over yet.
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    I think cycling as a professional sport is in big big trouble
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • SteppenHerring
    SteppenHerring Posts: 720
    Marco Panettone wrote:
    The biggest rider the sport has ever seen has been taken down, along with those with him. The UCI are shown to be at best incompetent, at worst corrupt. There HAVE to be changes. Sponsors pulling out show that things MUST change for the sport to continue.

    Don't believe this is over yet.
    This.

    If Fat Pat & Co aren't corrupt then they're inept. There needs to be a wholesale cleansing of the Augean stables that is the cycling establishment.

    Interesting that a bank of all organisations is worried about its reputation being tarred.
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    Just wait. The UCI will respond. Until they do, speculation is fairly pointless.

    Best case, they clean house. Worse case, the go for the FIFA style 'head in the sand' approach.
  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    The right thing was done. Does it need more than that?
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  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    Asprilla wrote:
    The right thing was done. Does it need more than that?

    Erm, yes. Quite clearly yes. The UCI need to take a long hard look at themselves for one thing.
  • PBo
    PBo Posts: 2,493
    errrr....surely we need to wait for the long term to see what good comes about???
  • PBo
    PBo Posts: 2,493
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Pro Race?

    nah, pro race is already a long term good!!! :wink:
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,313
    PBo wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Pro Race?

    nah, pro race is already a long term good!!! :wink:

    nah, full of internet forum people.



    Thought DDD had got over his fear of the Pro Race forum. Seems like he hasn't...too many slaps on his last venture :wink:
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    Il Principe wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    The right thing was done. Does it need more than that?

    Erm, yes. Quite clearly yes. The UCI need to take a long hard look at themselves for one thing.

    That was directed at DDD. What you say is true, but, even if nothing else comes of this then the fact that someone who cheated to win has been exposed is enough for me to justify it.

    Anything else that comes of this is a bonus.
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  • barry_kellett99
    barry_kellett99 Posts: 480
    How can you gauge long term good when its only been a week or two?
    Get a grip!
    http://teammaxbo.blogspot.com/

    Long live the pompino
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    What we are not seeing is a force for change within cycling. Its all well and good hearing about what sponsor has dropped Lance, but the UCI's silence (more than any else) is deafening and sends a message. Sometimes you have to act quickly and make clear where your position is. The UCI has failed to do this and/or take lead in this situation and I would argue, yes, they should have done a day or so after the 'reasoned decision' was made public.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • confused@BR
    confused@BR Posts: 295
    How can the O P ask about 'long term good', when the process is still working its way through? We haven't reached a place to measure any short term good/bad.
    'fool'
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    What we are not seeing is a force for change within cycling. Its all well and good hearing about what sponsor has dropped Lance, but the UCI's silence (more than any else) is deafening and sends a message. Sometimes you have to act quickly and make clear where your position is. The UCI has failed to do this and/or take lead in this situation and I would argue, yes, they should have done a day or so after the 'reasoned decision' was made public.

    I'm not sure a knee jerk response is what we need. I'd rather the UCI took their time and came up with proper, meaningful response.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,313
    Apparently the response to the USADA documents will be given at a press conference on Monday.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Rabo have pulled out not because the entire doping underbelly (which was bigger than this guy's belly fat1.jpg..) was uncovered, but because it existed to begin with.

    For sure, cycling was already rocking from lots of doping scandals, declining return on investment for sponsors and the Euro-crisis and general economic depression killing off lots of smaller races, especially in Spain, and this hasn't helped, but the problem was the widescale flagrent, grotesque, and pervasive doping, not the uncovering of the doping.
    _
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    Rabobank bottled it.

    Here was a chance to make a stance and run a clean cycling team with a strong anti-doping ethic. But I suppose it's easier to throw in your cards.
    Ben

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Rabobank bottled it.

    Here was a chance to make a stance and run a clean cycling team with a strong anti-doping ethic. But I suppose it's easier to throw in your cards.

    Me thinks a lot more dirt is there than we know about or is being reported.

    Barredo's being done for starters, but it's worse than that. I'm thinking USP only not as well drilled.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 16,961
    Il Principe wrote:
    Just wait. The UCI will respond. Until they do, speculation is fairly pointless.

    Best case, they clean house. Worse case, the go for the FIFA style 'head in the sand' approach.
    What the UCI won't do is carve out drug enforcement from promoting the sport. Sadly.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    On the 25th August in Cakestop
    daviesee wrote:
    Monty has raised a good point.
    Where have the UCI been for the past 24 hours?
    Conveniently ducking their heads in the sand.
    If they don't publicly support the USADA, either UCI or USADA will be discredited, you would think.
    Well. It's been nearly 2 months and still nothing.
    The UCI are not coming out of this very well.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,313
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Rabobank bottled it.

    Here was a chance to make a stance and run a clean cycling team with a strong anti-doping ethic. But I suppose it's easier to throw in your cards.

    Me thinks a lot more dirt is there than we know about or is being reported.

    Barredo's being done for starters, but it's worse than that. I'm thinking USP only not as well drilled.

    Or successful
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • chadders81
    chadders81 Posts: 744
    I'm concerned that, for all of their tough talk this week, Sky are still employing Sean Yates, who is basically in as much denial as Armstrong.

    There needs to be a line drawn in the sand and if that is going to happen, those with links to doping need to come clean.

    The truth and reconciliation committee they're talking about effectively needs to be an amnesty.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,313
    daviesee wrote:
    On the 25th August in Cakestop
    daviesee wrote:
    Monty has raised a good point.
    Where have the UCI been for the past 24 hours?
    Conveniently ducking their heads in the sand.
    If they don't publicly support the USADA, either UCI or USADA will be discredited, you would think.
    Well. It's been nearly 2 months and still nothing.
    The UCI are not coming out of this very well.


    The UCI haven't been doing nothing.

    They were willy waving in a Texas court room on Lance's behalf.

    The judge and WADA slapped them back into place.

    They then had no choice but to wait like everyone else for the publication of the Reason Decision. Sure they complained about how long it was before getting then file but really they were shitting themselves as to what would be in it.

    On Monday they will uphold the decision of USADA and Lance will be stripped of the 7 titles. If they have any sense (I know) they'll abide by the wishes of ASO and leave the titles vacant.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,313
    Chadders81 wrote:
    I'm concerned that, for all of their tough talk this week, Sky are still employing Sean Yates, who is basically in as much denial as Armstrong.

    There needs to be a line drawn in the sand and if that is going to happen, those with links to doping need to come clean.

    The truth and reconciliation committee they're talking about effectively needs to be an amnesty.

    Is there any evidence against Yates?

    Any mention of him in the Reasoned Decision?

    Can any team *really* say that no one on their staff has taken PEDs in the past?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • chadders81
    chadders81 Posts: 744
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Chadders81 wrote:
    I'm concerned that, for all of their tough talk this week, Sky are still employing Sean Yates, who is basically in as much denial as Armstrong.

    There needs to be a line drawn in the sand and if that is going to happen, those with links to doping need to come clean.

    The truth and reconciliation committee they're talking about effectively needs to be an amnesty.

    Is there any evidence against Yates?

    Any mention of him in the Reasoned Decision?

    Can any team *really* say that no one on their staff has taken PEDs in the past?

    No - of course they can't but Yates does sound a bit effing stupid saying he knew nothing when he was invited to join Discovery by Lance himself and most/all of the team were permanently juiced up.
  • chadders81
    chadders81 Posts: 744
    In October 2012 USADA released a report saying that the team had ran "the most sophisticated, professionalised and successful doping programme the sport has ever seen".

    And yet Yates knew nothing? Come on.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    He's pictured in the USADA doc with his arms around Motoman.


    Jullich gets regularly named as one of the numbered riders in the doc, and he definitely doped.

    Same goes for Rogers with Ferrari and the whole T Mobile to set up.

    For sure.

    Then there are plenty of other ex riders from the last 20 years too....
    _
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,313
    Chadders81 wrote:
    In October 2012 USADA released a report saying that the team had ran "the most sophisticated, professionalised and successful doping programme the sport has ever seen".

    And yet Yates knew nothing? Come on.


    My point is that Sky can't really sack without evidence of any wrongdoing or a confession.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!

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