Fiorenzo Magni RIP
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Great rider; but not going to mourn his passing much. Committed fascist and suspected key member of the Banda Carita; in 1944 several eyewitnesses place him as a key member of a violent militia attack on a partisan crowd resulting in numerous deaths... Magni was rumoured to be present at a celebratory meal to cheer to the deaths and torture of their foes.
Lovely chap.
He probably did something for charity at some point along the way, so I'm sure all was forgiven...0 -
Didn't know that. Puts doping in the shade really, doesn't it?kop van de wedstrijd0
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^^ gee wiz, that doesn't sound good.
Total opposite to Bartali
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viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12711399&p=16275169Contador is the Greatest0 -
blim wrote:Didn't know that. Puts doping in the shade really, doesn't it?
It does a bit.
Sorry to rain on your parade.
On the plus side, you don't need to feel so sad about his passing!
(if you want find out more about Magni's wartime activities, there's a section in 'Pedalare! Pedalare!: A History of Italian Cycling' by John Foot)0 -
Lived about three times longer than the poor souls he allegedly murdered. Not deserving of any respect.0
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I don't know anything about the man, but as a cyclist he was incredible.
3 Rondes back to back? 3 Giros at the time of Bartali and Coppi and a second place finish despite a broken clavicle and humerus. Quite some rider.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
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RichN95 wrote:Timoid. wrote:I don't know anything about the man, but as a cyclist he was incredible.
3 Rondes back to back? 3 Giros at the time of Bartali and Coppi and a second place finish despite a broken clavicle and humerus. Quite some rider.
OJ Simpson was a great football player.
Yes he was. Perhaps all time top ten tailback. Point being?
I'm just recognising that he is an all time cycling great.
Gandhi was a great man, but I'm sure he would blow in the Ronde.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Pulling a Frenchie on this one
Mad bstrd tied a friggin tube to his handlebars so that he could steer/support himself as his left shoulder could not support his weight for most of an infamously tough Giro.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Timoid. wrote:
Mad bstrd tied a friggin tube to his handlebars so that he could steer/support himself as his left shoulder could not support his weight for most of an infamously tough Giro.
What a guy!
I guess by the time that photo was taken in '56, the memory of torturing and killing in the name of Mussolini in WW2 - and collaborating with the Nazis - had subsided enough for him to concentrate fully on becoming an all Italian cycling hero.
What with cheating accusations clouding his '48 Giro victory (spectators pushing him up mountains), I see Magni as an olden-day version of Riccardo Ricco (had the latter also been accused of leading a far-right militia into killing and torturing).0 -
Before what you wrote is taken as gospel, to be fair to the man, Magni was put on trial and then acquitted of taking part in the massacre*, partly on testimonies from fellow riders Bartali and Martini, both of whom were on the opposite side of the fence when it came to politics and therefore had no great reason to support him.OCDuPalais wrote:Great rider; but not going to mourn his passing much. Committed fascist and suspected key member of the Banda Carita; in 1944 several eyewitnesses place him as a key member of a violent militia attack on a partisan crowd resulting in numerous deaths... Magni was rumoured to be present at a celebratory meal to cheer to the deaths and torture of their foes.
Lovely chap.
He probably did something for charity at some point along the way, so I'm sure all was forgiven...
*a local gamekeeper showed fascists where a group of partisans, who called themselves the Black Wolves, were hiding on an estate owned by English. About 150 fascists and local police then did a surprise attack. It is not known how many Black Wolves were present when the attack happened, but 17 died in the shoot-out and one who was wounded was killed there and then rather than taken prisoner. Also, 5 partisans were captured, and imprisoned and tortured (including amputation). An unknown number escaped; a Scot called Stuart Hood** from Edzel in Angus was one of the escapeees.
Of the 18 who died, ages ranged from 17 to 52 years, and they included two Serbians, a Ukrainian, and a Russian.
On the fascist side, the local police chief was knifed to death, supposedly by his own side for refusing to fire on partisans.
Sometime after the incident, the gamekeeper was captured by locals and publicly shot dead in the local town square.
Afterwards, for whatever different reasons, a number of people on both sides claimed to have been present at the battle, but later their claims were found to be untrue.
I wonder if that’s how Magni became associated with the incident.
** Hood later was involved in TV, including Z-Cars and That Was The Week That Was, and with Vanessa Redgrave a member of the Workers’ Revolutionary Party.
(edited to correct info on Hood)0 -
Thanks for that post, as I had just about got interested in cycle racing (my dad beat Reg Harris so there, nah ni nah ni)(no he didn't) and I knew of him as a great Italian cyclist.knedlicky wrote:Before what you wrote is taken as gospel, to be fair to the man, Magni was put on trial and then acquitted of taking part in the massacre*, partly on testimonies from fellow riders Bartali and Martini, both of whom were on the opposite side of the fence when it came to politics and therefore had no great reason to support him.............
I seem to remember there were three Great Italians picking up the spoils (Wins) at that time but Magni didn't get much of a write up in GB.
In which he finished 2nd overall in the 1956 Giro with a broken collar bone after a crash.Timoid wrote:Mad bstrd tied a friggin tube to his handlebars so that he could steer/support himself as his left shoulder could not support his weight for most of an infamously tough Giro.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
Contador is the Greatest0
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In his 2011 book Pedalare, Pedalare! however, John Foot paints a more nuanced picture of Magni's actions during the war, pointing to documents that commended Magni for "providing notable service to the cause of liberation" in Monza in 1945.Contador is the Greatest0
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knedlicky wrote:
Before what you wrote is taken as gospel, to be fair to the man, Magni was put on trial and then acquitted of taking part in the massacre*, partly on testimonies from fellow riders Bartali and Martini, both of whom were on the opposite side of the fence when it came to politics and therefore had no great reason to support him.OCDuPalais wrote:Great rider; but not going to mourn his passing much. Committed fascist and suspected key member of the Banda Carita; in 1944 several eyewitnesses place him as a key member of a violent militia attack on a partisan crowd resulting in numerous deaths... Magni was rumoured to be present at a celebratory meal to cheer to the deaths and torture of their foes.
Lovely chap.
He probably did something for charity at some point along the way, so I'm sure all was forgiven...
*a local gamekeeper showed fascists where a group of partisans, who called themselves the Black Wolves, were hiding on an estate owned by English. About 150 fascists and local police then did a surprise attack. It is not known how many Black Wolves were present when the attack happened, but 17 died in the shoot-out and one who was wounded was killed there and then rather than taken prisoner. Also, 5 partisans were captured, and imprisoned and tortured (including amputation). An unknown number escaped; a Scot called Stuart Hood** from Edzel in Angus was one of the escapeees.
Of the 18 who died, ages ranged from 17 to 52 years, and they included two Serbians, a Ukrainian, and a Russian.
On the fascist side, the local police chief was knifed to death, supposedly by his own side for refusing to fire on partisans.
Sometime after the incident, the gamekeeper was captured by locals and publicly shot dead in the local town square.
Afterwards, for whatever different reasons, a number of people on both sides claimed to have been present at the battle, but later their claims were found to be untrue.
I wonder if that’s how Magni became associated with the incident.
** Hood later was involved in TV, including Z-Cars and That Was The Week That Was, and with Vanessa Redgrave a member of the Workers’ Revolutionary Party.
(edited to correct info on Hood)
Apparently, it was only Martini who testified (Bartali was called but didn't turn up). And how their testimony was relevant to an event that no one was claiming that they were at anyway, I'm not sure.
Obviously, all this is speculation based on evidence rather than fact (even people who were there had conflicting statements - I'll make the assumption that you, like me, weren't there?) but even if the testimonies of those placing Magni at that particular attack ('Valibona massacre') were false, there are other accounts - including his leadership of a "terroristic group which hunted down partisans" in Tuscany*, according to Allied documents unearthed after it turns out the US military were tracking him in '43 & '44: and that this group (Banda Carità) were well known for their violence, sadistic torture and Nazi collaboration.
Magni never publicly confessed, but did attempt to explain away his allegiances as the result of a young man having to choose one side or the other at the time (in his case, being a fascist or partisan). This seems a bit disingenuous, to say the least, bearing in mind his documented membership to his band of merry men and their unlawful activities.
On that front, at least, he reminds me a bit of another cyclist in the news at the moment.....
*I doubt this was in order to give them a jolly good talking to0 -
It was Gazzetta where I read Bartali also provided testimony, but obviously I’ve no idea if Gazzetta got it wrong or made a journalistic slip (to put the name Bartali in any report probably increases their credibility).
And I don’t really know much about Magni in WW2 (so like any connections to the Banda Carita); my reply was more based on what I know of the ‘Valibona massacre’.
As for Magni explaining his allegiance, I’m sure there were a lot of men and women in the 1930s/early 40s who fell prey to the propaganda of the time (they didn’t have the bigger perspective we have possible nowadays) and I don’t really think we should expect the people who lived through those days to explain (i.e. satisfactorily to us) their choices.
As for those who participated in what we call atrocities, I wouldn’t want to defend them, because they should have intrinsically known what was right and what not – but I recognise that, if found in certain situations, it would have been very hard for them to withdraw (I apologise if I’m stating the obvious here).
When this incident occurred (January 1944), although Italy had capitulated 4 months earlier, the Allies still hadn’t been able to reach or occupy Rome, nevermind Tuscany, and I’m sure some of the remaining fascist-minded people farther north felt the capitulation by Italian Prime Minister Badoglio was similar if not identical to what many French people thought of what Marshal Petain did. And so I imagine it’s possible that certain groups in Italy felt they were right to resist the change and its supporters, Badoglio being regarded by them as much a traitor as Petain by the French Resistance.
The Allies won the war, so those in France who disagreed with Petain are judged well, while those in Italy who disagreed with Badoglio are judged badly.
It’s the winners who make the calls.
(my last sentence also reminds me a bit of another cyclist in the news at the moment.....0
