Manufacturers that just re-badge generic frames

the playing mantis

Ive heard Cube just buy generic far eastern frames (i appreciate most bikes are made in far east regardless of manufacturer). What other 'makes' do this, if indeed its correct, and if so why? what company makes these generic frames, and doesnt it mean some companies all produce eeffectively the same bike (if spec were the same)?

Sprool

I thought a lot of companies did this, Taiwan is the global centre of excellence for aluminium bike frames, so you can bet good money that Trek, Giant, Scott, Specialized as well as a dozen others all get their frames made here in large volumes to control costs. An awful lot of money is in the brand strength, and that is really propped up by good marketing and a good basic quality level.

alihisgreat

its a bit of an oxymoron isn't it?

if they're just re-badging frames then they're not "manufacturers"



regardless of that the vast majority of frames are made in the far east.. and on top of that there are actually very few companies who manufacture anything other than their top-end bikes... its all outsourced to other companies like Merida and Giant.

and the reasons? Cost.. moulds are expensive.. so its much more cost effective to use an existing one.

read this:
http://inrng.com/2012/02/who-made-your-bike/
then this:
http://inrng.com/who-makes-what/

the playing mantis

thanks, but not really answering the questions, as i say in the op, i know most 'makes' frames are built in the far east, and hence the use of 'makes' in inverted commas when referring to it, and its obvious why this happens, however i just trying to find out which brands, shall we say, do the bare minumum and just rebadge stuff, with no input, ie designing the frame, etc, as apparently cube do.

pastey_boy

Lots of manufacturers will choose a frame from a catalogue and then spec their own finishing touches and so on. Lots of examples of different firms using the same frame and massive price differences (even though they deny it or make out different materials are used) Car manufacturers do it as well . Cube seem to do well in reviews and sell lots of bikes so if they are just re-badging generic frames, it would seem the right thing to do.

southdownswolf

I might be being naive here...
But, is it not that the name brands do the design work, have their frames manufacturered, then the chinese sell them as rebadged bikes from the same moulds? Similar to what you are saying, but the other way around......

meesterbond

There's a big difference between designing a frame and outsourcing its manufacture and just rebranding a generic frame. Many (most?) of the large manufacturers outsource the production, but they design and own the moulds so they won't appear as generics down the road.

I very much doubt that Pinerallo and Venge bikes sold by the Chinese are made in the same moulds as the genuine article, otherwise I'd imagine they'd be looking for new suppliers.

kleinstroker

The big brands, Trek, Specialized etc, don't even design the frames themselves from what I have heard, they just get a composites designer to do all the legwork and calcs then send off the finished design to Taiwan. It might be different for steel and aluminium.

the playing mantis

this is more what i was after. if thats the case, how can these companies that do just rebadge a generic frame, with absolutley 0 design input justify there prices. if they were badged as some chinese make for example they would be cheap as chips.

at least those that do have some design input can try to justify the price hike by saying its because they are inputting there 'design expertise' for example.

thegreatdivide

kleinstroker wrote:

The big brands, Trek, Specialized etc, don't even design the frames themselves from what I have heard, they just get a composites designer to do all the legwork and calcs then send off the finished design to Taiwan. It might be different for steel and aluminium.

Got a source for this?

MountainMonster

All the frames come from the same places as every other frame. It is only the high end frames in a companies catalog that 'may' be manufactured in the companies home country. I was speaking with a bike shop buddy out in Austria who stocked Specialized bikes as well as many others, and he mentioned something along the lines of 60% of the frames are all made by the same factory. At the end of the day who cares where exactly it is made? The Far East has become a production powerhouse, and do very good quality products, so it is only a case of what you get along with geometry wise.

the playing mantis

no one is saying its a problem they are made in the far east or cares that they, read the op. the question is about companies just buying genric frames having no input. most frames ae made in a few factories, but most brands at least have design input into what gets made and the shape of the molds used. some dont.

Sprool

the playing mantis wrote:

....how can these companies that do just rebadge a generic frame, with absolutley 0 design input justify there prices..

Good question, and i go back to my earlier comment that good marketing underpins the value of the brand that people buy into. Brand value is complex and emotive but its the market that sets the prices. If [insert bike brand here] were poor quality and bad reputation, and didn't have appealing graphics, or release new models each year or kit out the frame with good spec components then no-one would pay the higher prices.
If you don't want to buy into the whole brand thing then you can get a good deal speccing out your own machine via Ribble. But even that in itself is a brand, but are they a manufacturer or just an assembler?

racingcondor

The problem is that even if you find the mold number (for instance Google FM015) you don't know if the seemingly identical branded frame is made from the same materials. Different layups, resin fibre mix etc will make for a dramatically different frame which can be made to look identical.

A reputable reseller (Planet X and Ribble most probably fall into these categories for at least most of their frames) will have a layer of quality control which weeds out dangerous and poorly made frames.

In the end all you can do is buy what you believe to be good value. Buy a cheap frame direct and you might get a bargain. You might also get the frame that was too poor to even make it into the shipping container headed to Ribble.

neeb

I'm guessing that in many cases, what happens is that a big brand company either commissions one of the Taiwanese companies to both design and manufacture a frame for them (perhaps with certain requirements, e.g. it should look like this or have these properties), or else buys the rights to a design that has already been produced in Taiwan but not marketed yet. The important thing for the brand must be exclusivity - people on internet forums are pretty good at spotting if, say, a Ribble frame and a Gueroccioti frame are from the same mould, so buying the exclusive rights to the mould would be an important way of maintaining the brand association. Clearly, however, this doesn't always happen, e.g. with the Ribble & Gueroccioti frame (the scuro RS) and the Ribble "stealth" frame which was also used by De Rosa. I guess it's cheaper not to buy exclusive rights, but you run the risk of devaluing the brand - still might be worth doing in some cases.

There must be a continuum however between buying a widely available design and re-badging it at one end, and being heavily involved with the far-eastern company during the design process of an exclusive frame at the other end.

Likebike-1

Just bought a Cube Acid 29er. It is the same as the Giant XTC 29er frame if I am correct. Just 2 triangles welded together.

kleinstroker

thegreatdivide wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

The big brands, Trek, Specialized etc, don't even design the frames themselves from what I have heard, they just get a composites designer to do all the legwork and calcs then send off the finished design to Taiwan. It might be different for steel and aluminium.

Got a source for this?

I was really surprised when I heard this as well, as I had assumed that companies the size of Specialized etc would have their own composites engineer but they don't.

It was our very own RPDSteve who is himself a composites specialist, that mentioned it to me when we were chatting about the manufacturing of carbon frames.