Elixir 3 vs 5

con1924

Hi, i am looking for some hydraulic brakes to replace the avid bb5 on my ns metropolis 2 2012. I have been looking at the avid elixir 3 2012 and elixir 5 2012. I would like to know which people think is the better brake? i know normally 5 would be better but its an older model and is therefore no longer on the avid website. I know people will disagree with this but i will either buy the 180mm or 200mm rotors and not the 160mm. My budget is about £50- £60 so any other ideas are welcome.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=67756
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=85973
http://www.sram.com/avid/products/elixi ... erm-id/287

thanks:)

cooldad

Get Shimano instead.

supersonic

There is little in the brake - the Avid/SRAM website lists the tech.

Neal_

I've got 2011 Elixir R's...get Shimano brakes.

Northwind

They are very similiar, ie, both pretty much adequate, and surrounded by better brakes at the same price. Get Shimano or Formula.

felix.london

Neal_ wrote:

I've got 2011 Elixir R's...get Shimano brakes.

Me too.

97th choice

felix.london wrote:

Neal_ wrote:

I've got 2011 Elixir R's...get Shimano brakes.

Me too.

+1 spongy unbleedable potato

The Rookie

Not unbleedable, but takes a lot more patience and a little 'knowing the knack' to do it right. Shimano I can do in 2 minutes dead.

Just swapping Juicy5's for XT's.

Tried a bike on XT and one on XX at a recent Demo day, the XT's just worked - they did exactly what I wanted, the XX felt pretty much like my aging Juicy 5's!

Avid brakes are all a bit wooden feeling, lack progression and yet still need a bit more force to work as you want.

Great Ayton

cooldad wrote:

Get Shimano instead.

Agree there are a much better brake. In my experience they are more powerful, require a lot less servicing and are vastly longer lived.

rockmonkeysc

I have had Elixir 3 & 5. Buy the 3, there is really nothing in it.
Well set up Elixirs are excellent and they are easy enough to bleed and set up well. Just don't use standard Avid pads.
Personally I don't like Shimano brakes, just never used a set which felt right to me.

Neal_

After doing it plenty of times I've worked out the knack to bleeding Elixir's and they work great for a while but eventually deteriorate in lever feel and power plus both callipers have sticky pistons so always rub, they're still within the 2 year warranty so will be getting sent back soon and hopefully I'll get a new set I can stick on fleabay to fund some SLX or XT's

mrmonkfinger

Nothing in it between 3 and 5.

I have used 5s for three years now without any problems. I now have several pairs of 3s, the original 5s (still fine and only on second set of pads), and some codes, so I'm aware I might be biased.

The bleed process can be a bit finicky but once bled properly they are not spongey. And really, bleeding Avids is not actually that difficult - providing the service instructions are followed.

I've never experienced any short term deterioration in feel and power (sounds like the brake fluid going bad, or a poor bleed leaving some air in the system) or problems with sticky pistons (crazy idea - clean them?).

Neal_

The 2012 Elixir's have a new bladder material in the lever that reduces air permeability, mine are 2011 so this may be part of the reason for them "going off" but it certainly isn't helped by the sticky pistons. I clean them regularly with warm soapy water and lube the pistons with rubber grease and silicone oil but any improvement is short lived. Brake fluid is always brand new unopened before being used for a bleed and I'm certain the bleeding is done correctly after doing it for years on motorbike brakes and following this excellent guide. http://www.pinkbike.com/news/tech-tuesd ... -2010.html

All people I know who've had Avid brakes say the same thing, they're great when they're working but most of the time there's a problem with them.

The Rookie

My fairly old and much abused J5's have never had a sticky piston.......

Northwind

Avids are nothing like as bad as people say, and IMO a lot of the problems are down to wonky bleeding. But, on the other hand, my mate's had a run of Elixirs that nobody can make work- he started out with 2 sets, now he's had 5, one of the warranty replacements has been warranty replaced!

But the thing is... They don't have to be as bad as people say, to be a bad option. They just have to be less good than the equivalently priced Shimanos and Formulas. And since the cheap Shimanos are fantastic, most things are less good. Whereas if you prefer spares availability and zero-loss bleeding, the Formulas are better. But IMO there's nothing to sell the Avids, nothing they do better than one or both of those two.

mattjevans

I've got Avid Elixir 3's on my bike and there are top of the shortlist for replacement. They are decent right after bleeding and with Aztec pads replacing the stock ones, but they make a s**t load of noise, don't feel as powerful as I'd expect and they do get a bit spongy too quickly.

As a previous poster said, in absolute terms they are not a "bad" brake as such. But in relative terms there seem to be much better options now available for the money.

con1924

Cheers for all the help, its much appreciated. I kinda get the fact that people dont think these are the best brakes for the money, so which are then. Some of you have said shimano, but when i look on chain reaction cycles i cant find and complete sets of brakes with rotor lever and caliper all included. Any specific models i should be looking for maybe ? cheers for all the help so far though

Chunkers1980

Shimano Deore for cheap.

Some Formula for dearer.

Have a look on Merlin.

thefartingcockeral

I have both elixir 3 and 5 and feel both are shite, in particular the 5 are absolute shite.
My wife has Shimano SLX and they are sweet. No rotor rubbing like the Avid. Easier to bleed etc.
Avoid and get Shimano. You will be greatful later.

Neal_

con1924 wrote:

Cheers for all the help, its much appreciated. I kinda get the fact that people dont think these are the best brakes for the money, so which are then. Some of you have said shimano, but when i look on chain reaction cycles i cant find and complete sets of brakes with rotor lever and caliper all included. Any specific models i should be looking for maybe ? cheers for all the help so far though

Shimano brakes tend to come as lever, hose and calliper with pads but without rotors and calliper adapters. You already have rotors and adapters though from your Tektro IO brakes so that's not really an issue. Deore will be great, SLX better and XT pretty much the same as SLX. You'll likely get the best price from Rose Bikes or Bike Discount.de in Germany although would have to swap the the levers as they come as front brake LHS lever but you'd need to shorten the hoses anyway so again a non issue.

Some decent sellers...

http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/products/bik ... r_products
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/m43/k4 ... ft=1&od=2u
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Cate ... rtBy=Price
http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/m ... sc-brakes/

welshkev

you can get a set of SLX for around £130 from merlin and if you go to formula direct, a set of K18's for about the same price

slx out of stock but here: http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/m ... -rear.html

formula: in fact K24's come in about the same price

http://store.formula-brake.com/items/brake-set-k24-5

mrmonkfinger

Neal_ wrote:

lube the pistons with rubber grease and silicone oil

Neither of which are compatible with DOT4/5.1 brake fluid and will, so I'm guessing this is your problem - try lubing with a smear of brake fluid instead. Also the Avid seals around the pistons will not like the silicone.

User error I'm afraid.

Neal_

mrmonkfinger wrote:

Neal_ wrote:

lube the pistons with rubber grease and silicone oil

Neither of which are compatible with DOT4/5.1 brake fluid and will, so I'm guessing this is your problem - try lubing with a smear of brake fluid instead. Also the Avid seals around the pistons will not like the silicone.

User error I'm afraid.

I originally tried lubing with brake fluid without success before trying rubber grease and silicone oil, I was under the impression both were fine for for all rubber seals, which I'm pretty sure they are, but it turns out you're right about them contaminating Dot4/5.1 fluid...doh! You can get Avid Pitstop brake assembly grease so I may get some of that if I attempt to have a crack at sorting them out myself.

mrmonkfinger

Neal_ wrote:

I originally tried lubing with brake fluid without success before trying rubber grease and silicone oil, I was under the impression both were fine for for all rubber seals, which I'm pretty sure they are, but it turns out you're right about them contaminating Dot4/5.1 fluid...doh! You can get Avid Pitstop brake assembly grease so I may get some of that if I attempt to have a crack at sorting them out myself.

I'm not 100% sure about the seals. The fluid, definitely.

Neal_

Even so it contaminates the fluid so I won't be using it again, I'm sure I had read somewhere silicone was ok to use on caliper seals but it definitely isn't with DOT4/5.1, thanks for correcting me. SRAM advises to use DOT grease or just DOT fluid for caliper assmbly so I'll probably just use brake fluid on them in future rather than pay out for their grease but they're still getting sent back as the sticky piston has been an issue since day one.

mac_man

Deore M596 FTW.
They've been well rated in plenty of tests. Stop as well as SLX or XT, just a bit heavier.

mcnultycop

My Juicy 3s were terrible. My Deores are much better.

stevieboy308

if the majority of people don't have any problems with avid doesn't mean they're good brakes, if a significant number of people have issues, then they're bad brakes, i think there's a more than significant number, including me.

i followed the instructions to the letter, but got the best results when i did my own thing.

hydraulic brakes should self adjust to compensate for pad wear, avids don't.

i thought the only difference between the 3 and the 5 was the 5 got the tool free reach adjuster wheel? which on mine was always fully out anyway

get shimano