Euskaltel... How good would they be?

EKIMIKE

In light of some of the issues discussed in this report, i was thinking:

How good would they be if they had retained certain riders over the years?

and

How much of that talent exodus owes to the UCI points sytem; or the simple attractions of bigger money, which has nothing to do with the points system?

In the last 5 years they lost riders like Zubeldia, Inxausti and Castroviejo. What's the betting promising young riders like Mikel Landa and Job Izagirre will go too if they achieve good results? Add into the mix names like Samu, Anton and Nieve and that could have been a pretty fearsome line-up.

They would have had top 10(s) in each of this years grand Tours notwithstanding a poor year for Samu.

RichN95.

You can't really look at it like that. Ultimately, it largely comes down to money and wages. And EE don't have the money.
It's the same with football - the amount of talent that has gone through my team - West Ham - over the last 15 years could have challenged for the Champsions League if they'd all stayed. It would have brankrupted the club though.

rick_chasey

Not every team can be good and have riders in the top 10.

EKIMIKE

Rick Chasey wrote:

Not every team can be good and have riders in the top 10.

True but for a team that seems to be so consistently producing top 10 riders it would be interesting to see what they could do with the kind of financial backing to put everything they they produce into effect - i.e. retain the talent they produce.

Ultimately my position is essentially what Rich is saying. It's a commercial sport right - the money talks. But it seems to me that Euskaltel are doing a lot right. Almost like HTC did a lot right in terms of sprinting. HTC had the backing (at least whilst it lasted) and did amazing things. So if for example Euskaltel had the backing would they perhaps be a kind of climbers HTC? Maybe not.

Just a thought i've had on more than a few occasions.

liquor box

I think the system of point travelling with new riders is unfair. I still try to convince myself that the team works to get the results and it is not all just the individual that crosses the line first. I think a percentage of points should be allocated to the team (that stays on the lisence no matter who leaves) and half to the winner.

I would prefer more go to the team as they fund the operation, they supply coaches, food, bikes, training, domestiques etc etc for the winner to use.

If you look at how much talent has left EE then surely they should be given some credit for helping produce this talent, think of it as a transfer fee.
http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOF ... w&LangId=1
Rank Prev. Team (Code) Country Points
1 1 SKY PROCYCLING (SKY) GBR 1,767
2 2 KATUSHA TEAM (KAT) RUS 1,273
3 3 LIQUIGAS-CANNONDALE (LIQ) ITA 1,197
4 4 OMEGA PHARMA-QUICKSTEP (OPQ) BEL 1,162
5 5 MOVISTAR TEAM (MOV) ESP 952
6 6 ORICA GREENEDGE (OGE) AUS 920
7 7 BMC RACING TEAM (BMC) USA 917
8 8 RABOBANK CYCLING TEAM (RAB) NED 799
9 9 GARMIN - SHARP (GRS) USA 762
10 11 ASTANA PRO TEAM (AST) KAZ 645
11 10 LOTTO BELISOL TEAM (LTB) BEL 625
12 12 RADIOSHACK-NISSAN (RNT) LUX 619
13 13 EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI (EUS) ESP 555
14 14 LAMPRE - ISD (LAM) ITA 435
15 15 TEAM SAXO BANK-TINKOFF BANK (STB) DEN 401
16 16 VACANSOLEIL-DCM PRO CYCLING TEAM (VCD) NED 364
17 17 AG2R LA MONDIALE (ALM) FRA 315
18 18 FDJ-BIG MAT (FDJ) FRA 246

My understanding is you need to be in the top 15 to be ensured of a spot in the next season, so it looks like they should make it.

It does seem like a flawed system to me, if you are not in the top teams your points dont count, so none of Europcars cyclist earn points as far as I know. How is this fair, it reduces the value of a cyclist who is good enough to win races against the best pros. They do get points but I dont think they transfer at the same value

I have always liked EE as a team since I started following cycling, I used to like that they seemed to only care about ging up mountains and not the sprints or flat days, and I loved this as I am a bit of a nut for mountain stages. Unfortunatly you cant do this now as you need to earn points every day if possible.

Nick Fitt

I seem to recall EE only take basque riders which while noble is limiting. Its obvious riders will at some time move on. If they will still only take basques, they are limit ing their recruitment pool of their own volition

liquor box

I thought this was interesting, and shows how rediculous the UCI Points system is
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/euskaltel-euskadi-denies-deal-for-points-with-oscar-freire_255997

Basque ProTeam Euskaltel-Euskadi has denied media reports that it was poised to sign three-time world champion Óscar Freire simply to snag the WorldTour points he would bring to the table, while not requiring him to race next season.

The Spanish daily El País reported Friday that Euskaltel general manager Igor González de Galdeano had approached Freire’s brother, who acts as his manager, to offer the Spanish star a contract for 2013 simply to gain access to his valuable WorldTour points with the caveat that he would not race or even be required to train.

In a press statement released Friday, González de Galdeano denied wanting to sign Freire “only to gain his points and not race.”

“I spoke with Freire in July, two months before the worlds, to express the team’s interest in having him join us,” he said. “Before our offer, he told us that he was definitely going to stop his career after the worlds in Limburg.”

González de Galdeano did say he was still interested in having Freire, who raced as an amateur in Spain’s Basque Country, join the team as a coach.

The 36-year-old Freire, meanwhile, confirmed his retirement at the end of the world road championships in the Netherlands last month.

“There are younger riders coming up and it’s a good time for me stop,” Freire said. “The only way I would have raced next year is if I had won the world title. Since I did not, the worlds in Valkenburg is my last race. I feel good to stop because I was competitive to the end.”

The suggestion that squads such as Euskaltel are on the hunt for points reveals just how desperate some teams have become to try to stay within the UCI’s 18-team WorldTour league.

WorldTour status is earned through a variety of criteria, including team points, a dedication to clean racing as well as a strong financial foundation, but the most important piece of the puzzle are points earned by individual riders.

Under the current UCI rules, the majority of the points earned by an individual rider are carried over to the next season, regardless of which team the rider is on. Thus, teams are becoming ever desperate to keep riders that are high points-earners and equally as keen to sign riders bringing a lot of points.

Freire ended the 2012 season with 181 points, slotting in at 24th in the UCI WorldTour ranking, well behind the 662 points earned by series winner Joaquim Rodríguez (Katusha).

But Freire’s points would have been a huge boost to Euskaltel-Euskadi, where only Samuel Sánchez, ranked seventh in the WorldTour ranking with 332 points, would have had more. Behind Sánchez, only Mikel Nieve, ranked 52nd with 98 points, had any significant points for the Basque team.

In fact, going into the final race with the Tour of Beijing next week, only eight riders of the team’s 24-rider roster have earned WorldTour points throughout the entire 2012 season.

Euskaltel-Euskadi rides into Beijing ranked 13th in the WorldTour rankings among 18 teams, a position that will likely not change next week.

The top 15 teams at the end of each season are automatically re-upped for the WorldTour for the following year. And with teams such as Argos-Shimano looking to muscle in for a WorldTour license in 2013, Euskaltel is under the gun to secure its future in the elite racing league.

After a rough 2012 season, when the squad faced a budget crisis during the spring, the team’s financial future seems secure with restructuring that will see longtime team manager Miguel Madariaga pushed aside in favor of González de Galdeano.

The team has already confirmed it will break its long-running rule of signing a majority of only Basque riders and will reach out to the international peloton to assure its place among the top-ranked teams.

González de Galdeano is quick to point out that the spirit of the team will remain strongly Basque and that only a few key riders might be added to bolster the team’s position among the team ranking.

So far, few of the team’s new signings have been revealed. The two riders that have been confirmed for next year — Jon Aberasturi (Orbea) and Garikoitz Bravo (Caja Rural) — are in fact both Basque.

The team is also reportedly in talks with ex-Euskaltel rider Haimar Zubeldia (RadioShack-Nissan), Jure Kocjan (Team Type 1-Sanofi) and Carlos Barredo (Rabobank).

Freire, for now, remains firmly retired. That might change if someone offers him a big enough carrot to get back on the bike.

EKIMIKE

Nick Fitt wrote:

I seem to recall EE only take basque riders which while noble is limiting. Its obvious riders will at some time move on. If they will still only take basques, they are limit ing their recruitment pool of their own volition

They've changed this policy for next year. They've pretty much had their hand forced by the points system. It will be interesting to see what happens.

You can have an open recruitment policy but still be rubbish e.g. AG2R or Saxo this year. Ultimately it still seems to boil down to £££'s. I suppose Vaughters would argue differently and cite Garmin as an example of success on limited budget but i think he likes to play his budget for starters and then you see that their burgeoning talents have flown the nest or are in the process of, for bigger money (Wiggins, Hushovd, Vanmarcke).