the next time Lance Armstrong turns up for a mtb race.

2»

Comments

  • njee20
    njee20 Posts: 9,613
    What has that link got to do with what I said Kev?

    He's brought cycling into the conscious of millions of people, yes ok in the last week that's been in a negative way, but before him I genuinely wager than most of the general public would only associate road racing with drug use. Now they know more about it, and associate it with drug use.
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    njee20 wrote:
    What has that link got to do with what I said Kev?

    He's brought cycling into the conscious of millions of people, yes ok in the last week that's been in a negative way, but before him I genuinely wager than most of the general public would only associate road racing with drug use. Now they know more about it, and associate it with drug use.

    I'm actually not sure mate, I'd had a few drinks when I did it :lol: :oops:
  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    Interesting. Looks like if he is stripped, there could be a few problems working out who actually won.
    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/bla ... 16263.html
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • TimB34
    TimB34 Posts: 316
    Sort of in reply to the OP - I guess he's referring to Leadville.

    I'm pretty sure that the Leadville 100 is not a US cycling sanctioned event - I think that most events that don't fit into the UCI XCO/XCM categories are unsanctioned.

    So US cycling cannot strip Armstrong of his Leadville win, and Armstrong could still take part, unless the race organisers independently decide to take away his victory.
  • 97th choice
    97th choice Posts: 2,222
    I just worry about all the young drug users who will be lured into cycling by this.
    Too-ra-loo-ra, too-ra-loo-rye, aye

    Giant Trance
    Radon ZR 27.5 Race
    Btwin Alur700
    Merida CX500
  • smack148
    smack148 Posts: 37
    it's all very serious...have I stumbled into the Roadie section by accident?
  • mrmonkfinger
    mrmonkfinger Posts: 1,452
    cyd190468 wrote:
    "You can't win the tour de France drinking just water" Fausto Coppi

    or was that Anquetil or Merckx?

    when did PEDs start getting banned in cycling?
    Blog
    Iron Horse Ojiki
    Carrera Kraken
    The Carrera Hardtail owners thread
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    cyd190468 wrote:
    I really don't think Lance has damaged any reputations just upheld long standing traditions.

    What he- or rather the investigation- has damaged is the illusion that the sport was committed to going clean. I know some people did believe that, or for whatever reason pretended to believe it, and it's those people who're now having a hairy.

    TBH I don't have a problem in the slightest with the fact that in the era of cheating, people cheated. But Armstrong wasn't just cheating, he was lambasting other cheats, suing people for saying he cheated... And still doing that.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • EH_Rob
    EH_Rob Posts: 1,134
    Northwind wrote:
    cyd190468 wrote:
    I really don't think Lance has damaged any reputations just upheld long standing traditions.

    What he- or rather the investigation- has damaged is the illusion that the sport was committed to going clean. I know some people did believe that, or for whatever reason pretended to believe it, and it's those people who're now having a hairy.

    TBH I don't have a problem in the slightest with the fact that in the era of cheating, people cheated. But Armstrong wasn't just cheating, he was lambasting other cheats, suing people for saying he cheated... And still doing that.

    The problem I have with him, aside from the fact he appears to be a cheating cnut (which I have a massive problem with), is that he dragged others along with him. Then denied it, threatened, bullied and sued people, and still denies it now, as Northwind says.

    The charity work etc is a seperate issue entirely, I think the two need to be looked at as such.
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    EH_Rob wrote:
    he dragged others along with him.

    Not really convinced of this tbh. Seems to me he was dragged in, the same as anyone else that wanted to compete. His choice of course but the same choice as his teammates and his opposition. Some of the witness testimony in the case says as much.

    Obviously some of the "witnesses" as they're being referred, or "other guilty people" as they actually are, would like us to believe they were poor victims and nasty Lance forced them to dope.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • mrmonkfinger
    mrmonkfinger Posts: 1,452
    a drugs amnesty is required for procycling; nobody gets busted, everybody fesses up, nobody does it again


    of course its making that last bit happen that seems to be just a tiny little bit tricky
    Blog
    Iron Horse Ojiki
    Carrera Kraken
    The Carrera Hardtail owners thread
  • boristhespie
    boristhespie Posts: 109
    You are right. Procycling needs a truth and reconcilliation type hearing. Purge the sport and allow the identificarion and getting rid of the hangers on and bad influences. The UCI needs a root n branch overhall OR gotten rid of.

    Once done then a new start with zero tolerance and LIFETIME bans.
  • ilovedirt
    ilovedirt Posts: 5,798
    I haven't read the thread, but I don't give a toss if armstrong is guilty of doping or not, the USADA should stick to their testing or not bother doing it at all if they can overturn their decision based on nothing more than the word of his former teammates (who were more than likely being paid to speak against him and were doping themselves).
    Production Privee Shan

    B'Twin Triban 5
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    ilovedirt wrote:
    I haven't read the thread, but I don't give a toss if armstrong is guilty of doping or not, the USADA should stick to their testing or not bother doing it at all if they can overturn their decision based on nothing more than the word of his former teammates (who were more than likely being paid to speak against him and were doping themselves).

    i agree with you in some respects, that he passed the tests that were there at the time etc.

    but have you read the evidence? it's very compelling and not just based on his former team mates testimonies, they have emails, bank records, testimonies from former team employees and more.
  • mrmonkfinger
    mrmonkfinger Posts: 1,452
    welshkev wrote:
    he passed the tests that were there at the time etc.

    correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it supposed to be that some tests weren't passed, and the results were bribed away?
    Blog
    Iron Horse Ojiki
    Carrera Kraken
    The Carrera Hardtail owners thread
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    mrmonkfinger wrote:
    welshkev wrote:
    he passed the tests that were there at the time etc.

    correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it supposed to be that some tests weren't passed, and the results were bribed away?

    i think that's conjecture at the moment? it was said he made a passing comment about 'covering up' a positive test and there's concern over the $100k he gave to UCI and their relationship with a swiss lab :?
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    cyd190468 wrote:
    Big picture! If so many cyclists got away with so much doping without testing positive, I assume the situation is the same in other endurance sports. Just no-one's dobbed yet.

    why?

    cycling is (apparently) clean now and people still complete races like the tour de france on jelly babies and lucozade
  • Red.Devil.Ghost
    Red.Devil.Ghost Posts: 185
    I can't believe some of the attitudes here. If doping is ok because everyone was doing it, why are heroin and cocaine not legal for general use?

    Sport is competitive. One man versus the next. Who is better - faster, stronger, longer that kind of thing. If you have to take something to beat the next guy, you have already lost. If anyone lets this go, its just a really bad example to the youth of today. These people are role models - but what kind of example are they setting? That its ok to cheat your way through as long as you win and get the recognition? What a load of bollox.

    If this was football, all the haters would be absolutely furious and going mental, exclaiming that everyone should be banned for life etc.

    Doping in sport is wrong. Plain and simple. If he was forced into it, then he is weak for not standing up to it. If he cajoled others into it, they are weak for not standing up to it.
  • Torres
    Torres Posts: 1,266
    No one's saying what he did was acceptable; I think the big issue is that Armstrong is now the poster-boy for doping. They're making an example of him despite the fact that 95% of his peers were doing the same.
    What We Achieve In Life, Echoes In Eternity
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Red.Devil.Ghost wrote:
    If you have to take something to beat the next guy, you have already lost.

    That was exactly the situation- all top riders were doping, so if you weren't doping you couldn't compete. They genuinely did have the choice, dope or fail.

    Now, I'm not an athlete, so I don't know what I'd do but if I'd dedicated myself for years to a career with the goal of reaching the top, then discovered that that was impossible unless I doped, not because I wasn't good enough but because everyone else was also doping, well... That's not simple is it.

    Cheating is cheating but as mad as it sounds, cheating was the only way to compete fairly. Dopers as a whole created this situation but individual dopers are part of the wider picture and basically a symptom of a broken sport.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    Red.Devil.Ghost wrote:
    I can't believe some of the attitudes here. If doping is ok because everyone was doing it, why are heroin and cocaine not legal for general use?

    Sport is competitive. One man versus the next. Who is better - faster, stronger, longer that kind of thing. If you have to take something to beat the next guy, you have already lost. If anyone lets this go, its just a really bad example to the youth of today. These people are role models - but what kind of example are they setting? That its ok to cheat your way through as long as you win and get the recognition? What a load of bollox.

    If this was football, all the haters would be absolutely furious and going mental, exclaiming that everyone should be banned for life etc.

    Doping in sport is wrong. Plain and simple. If he was forced into it, then he is weak for not standing up to it. If he cajoled others into it, they are weak for not standing up to it.

    Where has anyone said it was ok to dope?
  • Red.Devil.Ghost
    Red.Devil.Ghost Posts: 185
    The responses of some people along the line of, "I don't see the problem because everyone was doing it" suggests people think it is ok.

    Northwind I see your point about dedicating your life to something and then seeing everyone else doing it, but for me, I have more respect for some one who would just quit and do something else than continue like Armstrong. Everyone is different, but that's just my opinion. If you can't win fairly, you can't win.

    More than anything, its sad for the sport because like most people, I respected his 'amazing achievements', but now it has put a dark shadow over the entire sport. I think overall the sport will get through this like cricket will with the match fixing.
  • mrmonkfinger
    mrmonkfinger Posts: 1,452
    Red.Devil.Ghost wrote:
    I can't believe some of the attitudes here. If doping is ok because everyone was doing it, why are heroin and cocaine not legal for general use?

    no-one mentioned heroin and cocaine - let's leave that particular strawman outside the discussion
    Red.Devil.Ghost wrote:
    The responses of some people along the line of, "I don't see the problem because everyone was doing it" suggests people think it is ok.

    Some people do think it is ok, ie the 'level playing field' argument.


    All that aside, sport is a contest. Contests have rules. Lance (and many many others) broke the rules.

    Personally, I'm with Northwind. I have no idea what I would do if I had dedicated my entire life toward cycling as a career and only truly found out what was needed right at the top, when I got there and the choice was either "dope or lose".
    Blog
    Iron Horse Ojiki
    Carrera Kraken
    The Carrera Hardtail owners thread
  • mikeyj28
    mikeyj28 Posts: 754
    Also you have to bear in mind the financial carrots that were dangled for the other riders to go along and dope with Armstrong.
    If you are faced with getting 10x a monthly salary for doping and getting good results then a lot of people would definitely think twice regardless of morals. Not that i am saying it is right as it is most definitely NOT but a new rider without much money would be swayed by a hefty salary which most people can only dream of getting for doing the doping programme which other 'established' stars on the team are doing. If they don't get results (which is very hard against drugged riders) then they will be without a contract and no team due to being deemed not good enough.

    An amnesty is needed to try and rid drugs from the sport. Just hope in 10-15 years time the stars of today aren't exposed when drug testing develops further.
    Constantly trying to upgrade my parts.It is a long road ahead as things are so expensive for little gain. n+1 is always the principle in my mind.
  • BG2000
    BG2000 Posts: 517
    boristhespie wrote:
    So Armstrong turns up for another mountain bike race, should we flog him and burn him at the stake?

    Opinions on how this may affect cycling including mountain biking?

    Lance actually turned up for our weekly offroad night-ride on Wednesday, and he didn't get much stick from us. That might be because he was selling a load of Trek parts and Nike clothing really cheap. But he's OK really, just a regular chap like you and I.
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    UCI announcement on live now:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20026834

    he's banned - "Lance Armstrong has no place in cycling"
  • anj132
    anj132 Posts: 299
    welshkev wrote:
    UCI announcement on live now:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20026834

    he's banned - "Lance Armstrong has no place in cycling"

    thanks for link
    bbc wrote:
    Texas insurance company SCA Promotions will demand the return of $7.5m (£4.7m) in bonuses. SCA promotions covered a $5m (£3.1m) performance bonus paid to Armstrong after he won his sixth Tour in 2004.

    Ha, so they should.
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Considering that some of the USADA allegations were aimed directly at the UCI it'll be interesting to see how much more they've got to say.
    Uncompromising extremist

Categories