Bottom Bracket Creaking/Clicking

grahas

Hi all,
I am new to posting on forums. It is not really my thing but feel on this occassion it may be of ineterst to you all.
I have been struggling with Creaky/Clicking Eternal Bottom Bracket for the length of time i have owned my Bike?
A Kona Kula Gold 2010. The bike itself has served me very well(even though it has an annoying noise)
I have replaced the External BB bearings twice.
Once with the standard Shimano replacements and the second time with Token Ceramic ones.
Both times even with new bearings the creaking continues and both times i have removed the External BB bearings to replacethem, it has been the Non Drive Side Bearing that has begun to deteriorate.
Upon further investigation i could see that the inner race of the damaged bearing has been moving on the Hollotech crank shaft.(Fretting marks on the inner race show this) :shock: :?:
When assembling the new Bearings into the Bottom Bracket most recently(3rd set!) I decided to do some further checks, obviously in hindsight i should of done this before now!!
I screwed the new bearings nearly all the way home and offered a feeler gauge in the gap between the mating faces.
The Back of the External BB Bearing and the face of Bottom Braket Frame.
I found that the face of the frame was not flat. More to the point it was .020" not flat!!
Although this seems little it is by far enough to offset the External bearing once tightened against the mating face?
The reason for this!!!
Well it turns out !! the disrcepancy of the BB frame face is caused when the manufactures(KONA in this case) stamp the serial number on the frame. They must do this after they have already faced the frame!!
They do it that close o the edge of the BB that it distorts the area of the BB face local to the stamping!.
Once this face is machined back to flat then the creaking/clicking issue is resolved and bearing life is back to normal.
I have a couple of Pics that explain probably better than this post does but hope this puts an end to many of your creaky/clicking external BB issues?

I

nicklouse

yes a common issue.

which is why we always tell people to get frames faced or atleast checked.

The Rookie

grahas wrote:

Well it turns out !! the disrcepancy of the BB frame face is caused when the manufactures(KONA in this case) stamp the serial number on the frame. They must do this after they have already faced the frame!!

Assuming it was faced in the first place!

grahas

Really?
Kona didn't seem too receptive to the suggestion that it could be an issue from the manufacturer and said it was the first time they had ever heard of it! Saying that they have stamped the frames like this forever!
Maybe that is the case, but the issue would only cause a problem on bikes with External BB bearings.

grahas

They didn't contest the fact that they stamp after facing(so have to assume they do face it first!)
By the machining marks on the face i beleiev it has been faced at some point

The Rookie

Then take some photo's of the poor fit and get onto them, there problem, they should sort it for you!

bikaholic

Glad you were able to rectify the problem, or atleast get a temporary stay of execution with regard to the creaking/clicking.

However, you used an inaccurate method to check for the flatness (as opposed to squareness of the two components) of the mating surfaces and may have attributed the wrong conclusion to your actions.

You should have used Engineer's Blue instead of a feeler gauge, and doublechecked before and after re-facing the BB shell.

This creaking/clicking (starts off as a groaning noise) happens to intenal bearing BBs too, like the press fit BB30 and BB92 so it can't just be attributed only to the BB shell faces.

The Rookie

It CAN be attributed to that, sorry, the noise is a failing bearing, the causes can be different and running out of square can be a factor.
I disagree on the second point as well, a visual gap is enough to tell you that the thread is not square to the BB face, as the thread is the datum when facing it, it was a valid measure to 'prove' the BB shell wasn't suitable for an EB.

grahas

Thanks Beginner.
As for Bikeaholics comments!See previous post.

I posted my findings to help others solve their issue not to be cross examined regarding my methods! It was simply to help others!! There is a reason i don't use forums very often and your comments are it!
At no point was i questioning the squarness of the face in relation to the threads of the BB.
My point is that if one part of the face is distorted due to external impact around it edges(In this case serial numbers stamping near the face) Then the resulting distortion will!! when the External BB bearing is screwed fully home distort the the External BB and the bearing inside in relation to the shaft that is pushed through it!
As for the feeler gauge versus engineers blue! Come on now! I was talking about 0.020" distortion on the face! Not .002"
A feeler gauge is the perfect tool for offering around the mating faces to check for face distortion. Engineers blue would be use considering the gap we are talikng about is visble clearly with the naked eye.

grahas

BB showing stamping

Chunkers1980

And? What's your point? Have you checked everything else is perfect?

grahas

BB screwed home hand tight to show the difference the stamping has made on the face!

grahas

The point is. The bottom bracket was creaking/ clicking and wearing out!
Problem found/ solved and now no clicking creaking! and hopefully as time will tell a long lasting BB.