Leinders

iainf72
iainf72 Posts: 15,784
edited December 2012 in Pro race
It appears he didn't stand up to scrutiny.....
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    iainf72 wrote:
    It appears he didn't stand up to scrutiny.....

    Or he did, but he wasn't worth the hassle. I predicted long ago that regardless of wha he did or didn't do, he wasn't going to get a new contract.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    You need to be upfront about it. The cynic is me says they looked, found some ugliness and know it's going to come out in the the Rabobank trial in a couple of weeks.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence

    If Sky have a howler next year, then it will just convince people that they were doped to the gills by him this year.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    The pragmatist in me says they didn't have an investigation and never intended to. They just bought time until his contract was up and then got rid. The number of times I've told hockey authorities, "I'll look into it" despite knowing all the facts already....
    iainf72 wrote:
    If Sky have a howler next year, then it will just convince people that they were doped to the gills by him this year.
    With that in mind, in retrospect, stopping Kimmage following them on the 2010 Tour was the smartest move they ever made. Had he been there, it would have been 'look how bad they are when they can't dope'.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    That doesn't make them "transparent" then and Kimmage is right again - if they didn't do the investigation. If they did and have got rid of him, they need to figure out how to manage it. Because with the upcoming Rabo case they could look very very stupid.

    Seriously - If they had an ex-doping doctor this year and did well, and don't do well next year, it doesn't matter what happens, that will be the story.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    edited October 2012
    iainf72 wrote:
    Seriously - If they had an ex-doping doctor this year and did well, and don't do well next year, it doesn't matter what happens, that will be the story.

    And if they do just as well, it will be because they are secretly still hiring him. You can't win with some people.

    (I'm still yet to see anything to link Leinders to actually doping anyone).
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    iainf72 wrote:

    Seriously - If they had an ex-doping doctor this year and did well, and don't do well next year, it doesn't matter what happens, that will be the story.

    It will be a big story if you're Festinagirl. For most of us it will just be another footnote in cycling's dodgy history.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    RichN95 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Seriously - If they had an ex-doping doctor this year and did well, and don't do well next year, it doesn't matter what happens, that will be the story.

    And if they do just as well, it will be because they are secretly still hiring him. You can't win with some people.

    Well no, that just means their "enabler" is the guy from Cervelo who no one seems to know what he does.

    Can we at least agree that if you were taking your recruitment seriously, Leidners wouldn't have passed the pre-employment screening?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Sky has handled this Leinders-thing like a disaster. It started when they said they were unaware of his 'history'.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    iainf72 wrote:
    Can we at least agree that if you were taking your recruitment seriously, Leidners wouldn't have passed the pre-employment screening?
    Well that depends on what actually happened at Rabobank. I've yet to see anything to implicate him as a 'doping doctor'.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    RichN95 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Can we at least agree that if you were taking your recruitment seriously, Leidners wouldn't have passed the pre-employment screening?
    Well that depends on what actually happened at Rabobank. I've yet to see anything to implicate him as a 'doping doctor'.

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/05/ ... 007_216925

    Also, you do know why he left Rabo in the first place, right?
  • aspender
    aspender Posts: 96
    RichN95 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Can we at least agree that if you were taking your recruitment seriously, Leidners wouldn't have passed the pre-employment screening?
    Well that depends on what actually happened at Rabobank. I've yet to see anything to implicate him as a 'doping doctor'.

    This.

    There's a potential world of difference between a Ferrari character and a doctor who realises that if doping is going to happen anyway then it may at least be prudent to ensure it happens safely. They are a fair way apart on the ethical scale.

    Both are not 'innocent' but there are degrees of guilt. I've not read anything that suggests that Leinders would act in the same way he may have done at Rabo if in an environment in which the doping issue wasn't already present. Does he have experience of doping? Yes. Does that mean he will encourage it wherever he works? No.

    Sky were stupid to recruit him in hindsight due to the potential for reputational damage as Brailsford admitted, but it is a bit of a stretch to claim his employment = doping.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    ThomThom wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Can we at least agree that if you were taking your recruitment seriously, Leidners wouldn't have passed the pre-employment screening?
    Well that depends on what actually happened at Rabobank. I've yet to see anything to implicate him as a 'doping doctor'.
    ThomThom wrote:
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/05/news/newswire-doping-tolerated-at-rabobank-until-2007_216925
    I must be missing something. Where does it say his name? Or that any doctors at Rabo were administering doping. The quote "The paper claims that the choice of drugs was the responsibility of the rider, but that team doctors made sure their health was not at risk." suggests they were getting the doping outside the team.
    ThomThom wrote:
    Also, you do know why he left Rabo in the first place, right?
    No. And neither do you. It was some unspecified dispute about team policy. Some suggest it was due Rabo's 'zero tolerance' policy introduced at the end of 2007, which makes it odd that they kept employing the 'notorious' Leinders for another two years.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • itisaboutthebike
    itisaboutthebike Posts: 1,120
    It appears he didn't stand up to scrutiny.....

    when ?
  • tommasi
    tommasi Posts: 40
    https://twitter.com/sportingintel/statu ... 8723681281
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    iainf72 wrote:
    Can we at least agree that if you were taking your recruitment seriously, Leidners wouldn't have passed the pre-employment screening?

    I'm not completely au fait with the whole Dr Geert story - was there any evidence to suggest that he had any role in Rabobank doping before 2012?
  • gabriel959
    gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    I might be missing something but doesn't it appear in the USADA evidence something about Geert Leinders selling Levi EPO?
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  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    I keep reading this topic as Fleinders
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • nic_77
    nic_77 Posts: 929
    gabriel959 wrote:
    I might be missing something but doesn't it appear in the USADA evidence something about Geert Leinders selling Levi EPO?

    It says by 'the Rabobank team doctor'. The doctor's name is redacted as 'Other-8'.
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  • LangerDan
    LangerDan Posts: 6,132
    nic_77 wrote:
    gabriel959 wrote:
    I might be missing something but doesn't it appear in the USADA evidence something about Geert Leinders selling Levi EPO?

    It says by 'the Rabobank team doctor'. The doctor's name is redacted as 'Other-8'.

    Some over in the Clinic has been faffing around with the PDFs of the testimonies - who ever the doctor is, they can make out an "s" at the end of the name. They even went to the trouble of writing out "Geert Leinders" in the same font / size as the document and compared it with the spacing of the blanked-out name and it matches.

    Mind you, so would "Maude Flanders" (just to keep with Timoid's theme)
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Full USADA report does indeed say the whole Rabobank doping programme was run by Geert.

    http://m.nrc.nl/nieuws/2012/12/22/ploeg ... abo-ploeg/
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    RichN95, are you reading page 1? ;)
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    ThomThom wrote:
    RichN95, are you reading page 1? ;)

    Clearly, Sky should have interviewed Levi for the screening process instead of Leinders.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    ThomThom wrote:
    RichN95, are you reading page 1? ;)

    Yes, I've read it. And everything I said still stands.

    My position was we don't know.

    At the time there was precious little information about Leinders (you failed to provide anything), yet people were portraying him as some Ferrari figure - that was my point - that people were making claims that they couldn't back up at the time. If subsequent events change things then so be it. But I like to work with the info at hand at any one time. I've never claimed Leinders was innocent, just that I didn't know what he had done.

    In retrospect several people have asked why Sky would hire someone with such a terrible reputation - yet he worked for them for 18 months, listed on the website, quoted in the press, seen at races, and yet no-one raised an eyebrow.

    Everyone with hindsight is a genius in their own mind
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Bakunin
    Bakunin Posts: 868
    RichN95 wrote:
    ThomThom wrote:
    RichN95, are you reading page 1? ;)

    Yes, I've read it. And everything I said still stands.

    My position was we don't know.

    At the time there was precious little information about Leinders (you failed to provide anything), yet people were portraying him as some Ferrari figure - that was my point - that people were making claims that they couldn't back up at the time. If subsequent events change things then so be it. But I like to work with the info at hand at any one time. I've never claimed Leinders was innocent, just that I didn't know what he had done.

    In retrospect several people have asked why Sky would hire someone with such a terrible reputation - yet he worked for them for 18 months, listed on the website, quoted in the press, seen at races, and yet no-one raised an eyebrow.

    Everyone with hindsight is a genius in their own mind

    Kimmage raised an eyebrow.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Did nt make much noise about it though - particularly by his standards!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    ddraver wrote:
    Did nt make much noise about it though - particularly by his standards!

    According to my grandfather this is all over the Dutch press at the moment. And people are even surprised about Boogerd.

    Is that the case?
    _
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    The first time Leinders name seems to have hit the press was May this year when de Rooij said it was the medical staff (not the management, naturally).

    And over the weekend Boogerd spoke to NOS tv and says no, Leinders wasnt involved.

    Strikes me that the truth won't come out unless and until the Anti-Doping Authority Netherlands does a full review. Which considering that Thomas Dekker was supposed to have confessed etc in 2010 (?) kind of surprises me that it hasnt happened. Or maybe it did and they werent convinced of Leinders involvement.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    We need to stop the vendetta towards Boogerd immediately! Afterall, he did say this on doping usage a month ago: "That's really a ridiculous question. I really have said a hundred times that I have used no drugs"
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dutch-r ... -questions
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Did nt make much noise about it though - particularly by his standards!

    According to my grandfather this is all over the Dutch press at the moment. And people are even surprised about Boogerd.

    Is that the case?

    Dunno mate - I'm back home now. That and I don't really read the dutch press....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nys-lei ... est-person

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