Viva Venezuela!

MaxwellBygraves

Venezuela re-elects socialist President Hugo Chavez for a 4th term. Chavez won the election with a 10 point lead over his closest rival, in spite of a difficult campaign for Chavez who has been battling cancer.

An important moment for Latin America.

On the campaign trail, president Chávez vowed that if re-elected he would use the next six years to correct past mistakes, to continue to build a socialist alternative to the capitalist model, and to continue using the country's vast oil revenues to redistribute wealth, promote the revolution overseas and to bolster ideological allies such as Cuba and Nicaragua.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oc ... n-election

Bravo Chavez!

ETA: Turnout for the vote was over 80%. Western politicians take note.

pauldavid

Good for them





Top 4 for me

symo

Yay, his revolution continues, just like in Russia, which was a massive success of nationalization.

Wow, oil production down since nationalized! That helps to redistribute the wealth eh? 8)
Go Hugo, pretty soon you will import fuel.

Cleat Eastwood

Yay indeed - he gave a large amount of the oil money to the poor. Thankfully he and the majority on venezuelan voters realise that a nations true strength isnt in viewing people as commodities. Haha I wonder how much the CIA wasted trying to oust him.

dw300

Petrol £0.02 per litre .. I'd vote for him.

MaxwellBygraves

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

Haha I wonder how much the CIA wasted trying to oust him.

Over the years (think Cuba etc) they have spent so much on trying to oust various leaders they don't like they, rather ironically, could of gone some way to providing universal healthcare in their own country...

dylanfernley

An important victory for the human race, although for me he had a mandate to go much further than he has, his leadership and policies have provided an anti-dote to free market exploitation that is the norm in most of the world. it gives an insight of what could be possible if wealth redistribution occurred on a bigger scale, especially in developed economies.....viva la revolution

MaxwellBygraves

Some quick pics:

Supporters celebrate


Announcing victory


Viva Venezuela!

bompington

Yep, another 6 years of socialist paradise.
Strikes me as a pretty poor return on all that oil money, unless of course staying in power is the only aim.

peat

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

Yay indeed - he gave a large amount of the oil money to the poor.

He's also given alot to various racing teams to get people like Pastor Maldonado, Ernesto Viso and Rodolfo Gonzalez up the motorsport ladder.

EUR 29Million alone to Williams F1 for the 2012 season.

Yeah, man of the people...... :?

amun1000

Spent sometime in Venezuela whilst my wife was working there in a hospital about 15 years ago and I can say its a fantastic country.
For a bullet list:
No tourism to speak of - gotta watch out for the gun shots at night and more specifically taxi drivers with guns - had a few run ins with them. Its got the highest cable in the world (Merida), shop with most ice cream flavours. Carribean coast line
The country has so much to offer all the usual (food, music, women, wildlife). Just dont expect to pay your telephone bill in a hurry (usually takes about a day)

Places to check out are Merida, Choroni and Caracas.

MaxwellBygraves

Good little video on Chavez's re-election at Al-Jazeera: http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/ins ... terAccount

bompington

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

Good little video on Chavez's re-election at Al-Jazeera: http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/ins ... terAccount

Al-Jazeera - another bastion of liberal thinking and justice. Still, as long as you're anti-The Great Satan, eh?

MaxwellBygraves

Nice little article in the Guardian comment section by Seamus Milne: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... in-america

bompington

As is http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/02/hugo-chavez-strongmans-last-stand

dylanfernley

someone writes a critical piece in a liberal dogs-dinner of a paper, and you think that is somehow a stick to berate an opponent of western imperialism with. Sure he's not going to be perfect, he has to shit with the arse he has,but the election result was clear, more people trust him than the oily opponent, who represents washington.

Pross

dylanfernley wrote:

someone writes a critical piece in a liberal dogs-dinner of a paper, and you think that is somehow a stick to berate an opponent of western imperialism with. Sure he's not going to be perfect, he has to shoot with the ars* he has,but the election result was clear, more people trust him than the oily opponent, who represents washington.

Whereas the artcile from the same paper posted by Maxwell immediately above with the opposite view is somehow a true reflection of this utopia?

MaxwellBygraves

Pretty cool photo here. Taken the day before the election.

rodgers73

I don't know what to make of him as I know little of how Venezuala has changed or how it was before he was elected .

Annoying the CIA and his backing of regimes like Cuba doesn't seem like much of a reason to celebrate his victory though.

dylanfernley

It boils down to your political perspective,if you lean to the left then you would be broadly in favour of chavez-- if you are in the other camp-- then you would not.

Its easy for many who are nice and cosy in the west to cast aspersions on regimes in other parts of the world, the picture from a working class Venezuelan will be very different. FWIW , i went a lot to that region in the early eighties,and it was pretty bad on many levels, all the regimes were very cosy with Reagan and co-- do you recall the contra 'affair' in Nicaragua, where despite a ban from congress, colonel North used drug money to arm a private army to topple a democratically elected govt , because they were 'left' leaning.

Cuba has been a beacon of resistance to US imperialism for over 50 years, despite all the embargoes, dirty tricks, they survive against the odds, yet have a health care system better than the US-- people go to Cuba for eye treatment,from all over.They have more doctors per head than any other state, when hurricanes occur, the state mobilises and less loss of life occurs than any neighbouring island, they are an example of what can be done under a system that is run for the benefit of the majority and not the minority.

zippypablo

rodgers73 wrote:

I don't know what to make of him as I know little of how Venezuala has changed or how it was before he was elected .

Annoying the CIA and his backing of regimes like Cuba doesn't seem like much of a reason to celebrate his victory though.

Is appeasing the CIA a better alternative?
Cosying up to the USA is usually a one sided affair in which the US is the main beneficiary.

finchy

bompington wrote:

Yep, another 6 years of socialist paradise.
Strikes me as a pretty poor return on all that oil money, unless of course staying in power is the only aim.

According to the article to which you linked, "income inequality has fallen dramatically in Venezuela in the recent past. The country’s Gini Coefficient—a widely used index to measure inequality by placing countries on a 0 (perfect equality) to 1 (perfect inequality) scale—moved from 0.498 in 1999 to 0.412 in 2008, a drop unparalleled in Latin America. Meanwhile, human development levels have improved consistently and considerably in the country. The UNDP’s Human Development Index (which combines measures of income, health and educational attainment also on a scale from 0 to 1, with higher levels of prosperity being closer to 1) has gone from 0.656 in 2000 to 0.735 in 2011, an increase of 1% per year. No one would guess Venezuela’s crime crisis from looking at these figures."

I don't know how accurate these figures are, but something must have motivated people to go out and vote for Chavez in such vast numbers.

tiredofwhiners

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

Nice little article in the Guardian comment section by Seamus Milne: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... in-america

Seamus's articles are, by and large, complete b*llocks. He's the male version of Polly Toynbee.

He's excellent for setting out how to spend money you don't actually have, on a socialist crusade - the old expression about socialism working until you run out of other peoples money was written for him.

The guys never done a real job in his life - just sat at the sidelines and complained about others.

bompington

johnfinch wrote:

bompington wrote:

Yep, another 6 years of socialist paradise.
Strikes me as a pretty poor return on all that oil money, unless of course staying in power is the only aim.

According to the article to which you linked, "income inequality has fallen dramatically in Venezuela in the recent past. The country’s Gini Coefficient—a widely used index to measure inequality by placing countries on a 0 (perfect equality) to 1 (perfect inequality) scale—moved from 0.498 in 1999 to 0.412 in 2008, a drop unparalleled in Latin America. Meanwhile, human development levels have improved consistently and considerably in the country. The UNDP’s Human Development Index (which combines measures of income, health and educational attainment also on a scale from 0 to 1, with higher levels of prosperity being closer to 1) has gone from 0.656 in 2000 to 0.735 in 2011, an increase of 1% per year. No one would guess Venezuela’s crime crisis from looking at these figures."

I don't know how accurate these figures are, but something must have motivated people to go out and vote for Chavez in such vast numbers.

Absolutely. It is clear that Chavez has done some, maybe a lot of, good in Venezuela - just that a) the vast amounts of oil money have not been spent either openly or effectively, and b) while he may not be a dictator, there is a massive concentration of power in his hands, and it doesn't appear that he always uses it wisely, or legally.

dylanfernley

the old expression about socialism working until you run out of other peoples money was written for him.

So when the banks were going under, had they run out of other peoples money ??

finchy

bompington wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

bompington wrote:

Yep, another 6 years of socialist paradise.
Strikes me as a pretty poor return on all that oil money, unless of course staying in power is the only aim.

According to the article to which you linked, "income inequality has fallen dramatically in Venezuela in the recent past. The country’s Gini Coefficient—a widely used index to measure inequality by placing countries on a 0 (perfect equality) to 1 (perfect inequality) scale—moved from 0.498 in 1999 to 0.412 in 2008, a drop unparalleled in Latin America. Meanwhile, human development levels have improved consistently and considerably in the country. The UNDP’s Human Development Index (which combines measures of income, health and educational attainment also on a scale from 0 to 1, with higher levels of prosperity being closer to 1) has gone from 0.656 in 2000 to 0.735 in 2011, an increase of 1% per year. No one would guess Venezuela’s crime crisis from looking at these figures."

I don't know how accurate these figures are, but something must have motivated people to go out and vote for Chavez in such vast numbers.

Absolutely. It is clear that Chavez has done some, maybe a lot of, good in Venezuela - just that a) the vast amounts of oil money have not been spent either openly or effectively, and b) while he may not be a dictator, there is a massive concentration of power in his hands, and it doesn't appear that he always uses it wisely, or legally.

I suppose the acid test for Chavez's policies are in the long term - he has spent all this money on education and health, what will the effects be in 20-30 years? Will the Venezuelan economy be able to diversify into other hi-tech industries?

Pross

dylanfernley wrote:

the old expression about socialism working until you run out of other peoples money was written for him.

So when the banks were going under, had they run out of other peoples money ??

Yes - they leant it to other people who, following Gordon Brown's example, borrowed and spent money they couldn't afford to pay back.

markos1963

The interesting thing about Chavez's use of oil revnue is that it has been by and large for the benefit of his people, something tangible. What happened to our oil wealth? By and large paid for Thatcher to put 3+ million on the dole so she could persue her politcal ideoligy.

MaxwellBygraves

Comrade Chavez has been receiving emergency cancer treatment in Cuba. As a result he was unable to attend his own inauguration. See more here.

Here's wishing the Comandante a full and speedy recovery and a swift return to power.

dylanfernley

yep, one of the worlds good guys-- his health has taken a hit for all the stress the man must have been under , 12 years with no holidays-- the whole of the capitalist world against him and his party, but shows what can be done, imagine the difference an advanced economy could make if it were used to help people not profits........

lostboysaint

dylanfernley wrote:

yep, one of the worlds good guys-- his health has taken a hit for all the stress the man must have been under , 12 years with no holidays-- the whole of the capitalist world against him and his party, but shows what can be done, imagine the difference an advanced economy could make if it were used to help people not profits........

Why not just look at Canada then?