turner flux 2010 and have noticed a crack

sig123

Hi all after some advice on what to do , i have a turner flux 2010 and have noticed a crack nearly all the way around the top tube, about an inch back from the front of the frame. any ideas fix or scrap.

nicklouse

back to the shop with it.

sig123

would love to but got this second hand

nicklouse

with out seeing it In would say bin it or turn it into some wall art.

warpcow

It might be worth getting in touch with Turner directly. They have some pretty legendary customer service. Not saying you should expect much with it being 2nd-hand and all, but they might do you a deal on a new front triangle or something similar.

Clank

cyd190468 wrote:

It will be just as strong.

Sweeping statement and technically inaccurate. You may be happy with it, but that isn't the same thing.

sig123

have spoken to a coulpe of bike shops and they all say the same, SCRAP IT, which wasnt what i wanted to here, alot of money down the drain.

nicklouse

drop turner a mail they may be able to sort out a new front triangle.

if not sure there will be people wanting rear ends for them on Ebay.

The Rookie

Nothing to loose dropping Turner an email!

Clank

The Beginner wrote:

Nothing to loose dropping Turner an email!

Indeed - depending on the failure, they could be very interested in whats happened.

supersonic

What about heat treatment?

warpcow

cyd190468 wrote:

Just over weld the area slightly to compensate for reduced hardness and anneal to relieve stress. Bike frames are never heat treated after assembly anyway, it takes days to do T6 treatment.

Doesn't it depend on what alloy is being used? I'm pretty sure Giant claim to heat treat their 'AluxX' frames post-assembly. There are plenty of cheapo, non-heat treated, 7005 frames though.

Clank

cyd190468 wrote:

, it takes days to do T6 treatment.

You may be surpised - it can be done relatively quickly, depending on the alloy. 1) We do it in work regularly, both in the development of process proceedures and the development of new materials and and 2) it is a line-process for the likes of Alcan and Novelis. 6000 series frames will most likely all go through a post-weld heat treatment - much like every aluminium Jag (the paint bake cycle is enough to harden the material). However, the heat soak takes some time and just running the weld torch over the joint will not help with 6XXX alloys.

Sleeve the joint and all you do is move the damage elsewhere. Don't forget, in many aluminiums (including a lot of 6XXX alloys) a grain size differential is enough to cause stress raisers and premature failure (big issue with early aluminium frames), then there are the issues of getting the surfaces clean enough to weld because that can lead to massive increaces in joint porosity (again, we've done the studies in work for a major customer). Actually, domestic dishwashers make a fantastic pre-treatment for 5XXX and 6XXX alloys, especially with Fairy Powerball tablets!

Fillet brazing ali brings it's own issues too. Currently, best practise requires flourine-based fluxes and then some very specific post-braze cleaning, otherwise the remaining flux simply rots the tube (it's a significant issue with ali cooling packs). Again, we did a big investigation for a major customer and without that flux you get significantly reduced wetting and bond strength. Audi use the same kind of thing for their laser-brazed aluminium part.

I am familier with aerospace repair techniques and I understand fully what is involved in terms of part prep (we try and do as little as possible for aerospace) - not a job your average fabrication shop can do. Importantly, the wing stringers and engine struts are typically made from very different alloys (typically 2XXX series) which are inherently more weldable. Aluminium alloys are definately not all created equal.

So as I said - you may be happy with the result, but that's not the same thing as it being as strong than the original joint / material. It's a sweeping generalisation and misleading (and in most cases, inaccurate). We can get close on first-life joints, but I'll admit we struggle with repair strategy.

In short, professionaly, I've yet to be convinced by the validity of repair to aluminium bike frames.

benpinnick

Sounds like a gaffer tape job to me.

supersonic

I don't know of many, if any, 6061 frames that are not T6 treated post welding.

marz

Contact Turner. They just fixed up my Sixpack for $300. I had a crack in the seattube, they replaced the tube, resprayed the frame to the colour of my choice and set new bearings in the suspension arm. Runs as good as new.

Took about 6 weeks from leaving my house to getting the frame back.

warpcow

cyd190468 wrote:

Most are heat treated but not to what you could call T6 if it was any other industry. The quench phase used post welding generally goes for minutes rather than hours.
http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Avail ... _Frame.pdf (check out fig.12)
This British bike manufacturer does the initial heating for 40 mins rather than the 9 hours used in aerospace. Not quite the same thing.

So are you questioning whether it should be called T6 at all? The dissertation you link to doesn't do this at all. In fact the figure you quote is exactly what the authors describe as being T6 heat treatment for a bicycle frame. It also shows (Appendix A., from the ASM handbook) that times for these phases vary based on the thickness of aluminium to be treated. Also, who is this "British bike manufacturer"? The figure in the dissertation seems to be general, and no single manufacturer is mentioned anywhere else in the work, apart from the acknowledements and the table with lists of frame recalls. Can you provide work that definitively lays out the steps of what you would describe as a T6 treatment for a 6061 bicycle frame?

Clank

cyd190468 wrote:

Most are heat treated but not to what you could call T6 if it was any other industry. The quench phase used post welding generally goes for minutes rather than hours.
http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Avail ... _Frame.pdf (check out fig.12)
This British bike manufacturer does the initial heating for 40 mins rather than the 9 hours used in aerospace. Not quite the same thing.

So why the quack did you raise the issue of T6 conditioning in the first place?

1) I'm struggling to follow your line of logic, and 2) this is not helping the OP.

M'eh, I'm comfortable with the work I do regarding joining, so for that reason, ahm oot.

Bwgan

Plan B, house insurance!!! But, do not make the mistake I made. I told them I cracked my Cannondalewhilst riding it ands hit a rock cracking the BB housing. They wouldn't touch it as it was wear and tear! However, if it had fallen off my bike rack on the way to my ride it would have been insured!

sig123

looks like turner are sending me a new front triangle.

The Rookie

Sounds like good customer service....

warpcow

Good news!

marz

sig123 wrote:

looks like turner are sending me a new front triangle.

Awesome. I've been riding a Turner for about 6 years and their customer service has won me over almost as much as their frames. Next bike for me will be another Turner.

nicklouse

cyd190468 wrote:

Quick update. Six weeks and about 300km after haveing the non-drive side chainstay welded up just behind the main pivot and everything is going fine. Admittedly I was a bit hesitant at first but now I'm riding all the same stuff that caused the crack in the first place. 20 bucks well spent (so far)

who did it? Grip? actually at 20 Aus i dont think it would have been Grip.

expect it to fail soon.

sig123

UPDATE, Frame came today took a long time but carnt complain as turner did all this without proof of purchase.

cooldad

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