Nice article in the NY Times about helmets

cyclingprop

Corporate Camper wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

CiB wrote:

Corporate Camper wrote:

On two consecutive weekends when I've been riding in the countryside around here, cyclists coming the other way have shouted "Helmet!" at me. Maybe it's a comment on my personality, rather than what I chose to wear on my head...

That was me. Presume you haven't spotted the Botolph Claydon natives hiding in the trees lobbing old damaged helmets at passing cyclists? Ignore the warnings at your peril.

That'd be a nice bit of schadenfreude, being knocked off yer bike and killed to death by a well-aimed helmet. Neat.

That would be irony not schadenfreude you ignoramus.

I often get confused about what is and isn't ironic, I blame Alanis Morissette for muddying the waters.

The ONLY thing ironic about that song is that she sings about misfortune and accidents but not irony.

CiB

Kieran_Burns wrote:

CiB wrote:

Corporate Camper wrote:

On two consecutive weekends when I've been riding in the countryside around here, cyclists coming the other way have shouted "Helmet!" at me. Maybe it's a comment on my personality, rather than what I chose to wear on my head...

That was me. Presume you haven't spotted the Botolph Claydon natives hiding in the trees lobbing old damaged helmets at passing cyclists? Ignore the warnings at your peril.

That'd be a nice bit of schadenfreude, being knocked off yer bike and killed to death by a well-aimed helmet. Neat.

That would be irony not schadenfreude you ignoramus.

Guilty as charged m'lud. I was just dashing off to play squash and clutched at a flailing straw in the wind. Sorry n all that.

rick_chasey

Corporate Camper wrote:

On two consecutive weekends when I've been riding in the countryside around here, cyclists coming the other way have shouted "Helmet!" at me. Maybe it's a comment on my personality, rather than what I chose to wear on my head...

Seriously? WTF?

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

You are no less safer wearing a helemt

Eh?

gabriel959

As some have said there is very little reported evidence that the helmet does actually help (or doesn't for that matter) but in my experience and experience of other people's accidents I have seen I wouldn't ride without one.

At the end of the day people should be free to make their own decisions.

Corporate Camper

gabriel959 wrote:

As some have said there is very little reported evidence that the helmet does actually help (or doesn't for that matter) but in my experience and experience of other people's accidents I have seen I wouldn't ride without one.

At the end of the day people should be free to make their own decisions.

That's a fair point. There are a lot of "if I wasn't wearing my helmet I would be dead now" anecdotes on here, I wonder how they compare to the number of people who no longer use BikeRadar due to being actually dead as a result of not wearing a helmet?

pangolin

Corporate Camper wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

As some have said there is very little reported evidence that the helmet does actually help (or doesn't for that matter) but in my experience and experience of other people's accidents I have seen I wouldn't ride without one.

At the end of the day people should be free to make their own decisions.

That's a fair point. There are a lot of "if I wasn't wearing my helmet I would be dead now" anecdotes on here, I wonder how they compare to the number of people who no longer use BikeRadar due to being actually dead as a result of not wearing a helmet?

I wonder how they compare to the number of people who were in an accident and not wearing a helmet, but lived to tell the tale, and had they been wearing a helmet it would have been damaged enough to convince them they would have been dead if they weren't.

We'll probably never know. Like Gabriel says, each to their own.

dhope

Corporate Camper wrote:

I wonder how they compare to the number of people who no longer use BikeRadar due to being actually dead as a result of not wearing a helmet?

If they're not going to make their voices known how can we take their points of view seriously...

bompington

Knock once for helmet, twice for no helmet

rjsterry

Based on my shunt this morning, there is definitely a case for peds to wear them: she smacked her head on the tarmac, while I just lost some elbow skin.

bails87

bompington wrote:

Knock once for helmet, twice for no helmet

"Knock, knock"

"Ah, double helmet!"

pangolin

bails87 wrote:

bompington wrote:

Knock once for helmet, twice for no helmet

"Knock, knock"

"Ah, double helmet!"

wgwarburton

pangolin wrote:

Corporate Camper wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

As some have said there is very little reported evidence that the helmet does actually help (or doesn't for that matter) but in my experience and experience of other people's accidents I have seen I wouldn't ride without one.

At the end of the day people should be free to make their own decisions.

That's a fair point. There are a lot of "if I wasn't wearing my helmet I would be dead now" anecdotes on here, I wonder how they compare to the number of people who no longer use BikeRadar due to being actually dead as a result of not wearing a helmet?

I wonder how they compare to the number of people who were in an accident and not wearing a helmet, but lived to tell the tale, and had they been wearing a helmet it would have been damaged enough to convince them they would have been dead if they weren't.

We'll probably never know. Like Gabriel says, each to their own.

Indeed. I've come off a few times over the years (ice, diesel, foolishness...) and have yet to bang my head, let alone injure it. It seems to me that I'm far more likely to hit my head off the ground if I'm wearing a helmet- it's a lot bigger and heavier. Statistically irrelevant, though, as the sample size is a bit small...
More statistically significant is that population studies don't show a reduction in head trauma when helmet use is high. Given that it seems to me to be pretty much guaranteed that helmets reduce minor injuries, that makes me think that they increase major ones...
Most folk seem to think that there's no chance of helmets increasing risk, though, so I guess I must just be an idiot.

Cheers,
W.

roger_merriman

WGWarburton wrote:

pangolin wrote:

Corporate Camper wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

As some have said there is very little reported evidence that the helmet does actually help (or doesn't for that matter) but in my experience and experience of other people's accidents I have seen I wouldn't ride without one.

At the end of the day people should be free to make their own decisions.

That's a fair point. There are a lot of "if I wasn't wearing my helmet I would be dead now" anecdotes on here, I wonder how they compare to the number of people who no longer use BikeRadar due to being actually dead as a result of not wearing a helmet?

I wonder how they compare to the number of people who were in an accident and not wearing a helmet, but lived to tell the tale, and had they been wearing a helmet it would have been damaged enough to convince them they would have been dead if they weren't.

We'll probably never know. Like Gabriel says, each to their own.

Indeed. I've come off a few times over the years (ice, diesel, foolishness...) and have yet to bang my head, let alone injure it. It seems to me that I'm far more likely to hit my head off the ground if I'm wearing a helmet- it's a lot bigger and heavier. Statistically irrelevant, though, as the sample size is a bit small...
More statistically significant is that population studies don't show a reduction in head trauma when helmet use is high. Given that it seems to me to be pretty much guaranteed that helmets reduce minor injuries, that makes me think that they increase major ones...
Most folk seem to think that there's no chance of helmets increasing risk, though, so I guess I must just be an idiot.

Cheers,
W.

Motorbike helmets being bigger and rather heavier do increase some risks, but the average Helmet for a bike is no where near the size or weight of a Motorbike Helmet.

I've yet to see any compelling evidence that bar internet threads helmets do much at all, be that good or bad.

bigmat

WGWarburton wrote:

Indeed. I've come off a few times over the years (ice, diesel, foolishness...) and have yet to bang my head, let alone injure it. It seems to me that I'm far more likely to hit my head off the ground if I'm wearing a helmet- it's a lot bigger and heavier. Statistically irrelevant, though, as the sample size is a bit small...
More statistically significant is that population studies don't show a reduction in head trauma when helmet use is high. Given that it seems to me to be pretty much guaranteed that helmets reduce minor injuries, that makes me think that they increase major ones...
Most folk seem to think that there's no chance of helmets increasing risk, though, so I guess I must just be an idiot.

Cheers,
W.

I have also come off a few times over the years. I have always been wearing a helmet and have only hit my head on one occasion. So I think the suggestion that these massive, heavy lumps of polystyrene increase the likelihood of hitting your head is a pretty spurious one. On the one occasion that my helmet did get a bit of a knock, I think I basically skidded along on the side of it for a few metres. I reckon (and its just a guess, as I couldn't get anybody to volunteer to have the exact same crash without a helmet) that had I not been wearing it I would have lost a bit of face / ear on the tarmac. So it didn't save my life, but still that one incident in, I don't know, 50,000 miles of cycling, is enough for me to be glad that I almost always wear a helmet. No need to badger others about it though, everybody has their own perception of risk and what they do / don't consider necessary.

Actually, one of the few times I wouldn't bother is on a Boris bike. I can't see how mandatory helmet use and a cycle hire scheme could co-exist, unless the helmet came with the bike somehow (apologies for going a bit on-topic there).

Oh, almost forgot, I previously smashed up a helmet back when I was maybe 16 - mountain biking, hit a ditch covered by long grass at the end of a fast downhill, by all accounts I did a full somersault on the bike and landed pretty much head first. Helmet was in pieces. I was concussed. I think it helped. Certainly didn't regret wearing it!

Anonymous

I did knock myself out on my MTB in a a similar situation - cloncked myself just above the eye socket. Helmet wouldn't have made a difference.

One of the reasons I wear a helmet is to stop people whinging at me, especially the missus. She thinks I should be head to toe in a day-glo boiler suit.....

pangolin

coriordan wrote:

She thinks I should be head to toe in a day-glo boiler suit.....

We're only talking about cycling here, please stay on topic.

Anonymous

pangolin wrote:

coriordan wrote:

She thinks I should be head to toe in a day-glo boiler suit.....

We're only talking about cycling here, please stay on topic.

Oops, wrong forum

Blacktemplar

Does anyone feel they ride "less safely" when they wear a helmet? i.e. does wearing one give you a slightly false sense of security?

It's a bit like the question of wearing shoulder pads etc in rugby. Some coaches argue it creates that false sense of safety, and as a consequence, kids are taking/giving bigger hits which in turn are leading to more injuries. I've certainly noticed that bulky shoulder pads have largely disappeared in the Prem at the moment.

Salutory tale: my mate had an off - caused by some brain disturbance - at a relatively low speed, and if he hadn't been wearing a helmet the neurosurgeon said his injuries would have been much worse (possibly even fatal) as he landed sideways on some rocks at the side of the road.

meanredspider

Blacktemplar wrote:

Does anyone feel they ride "less safely" when they wear a helmet? i.e. does wearing one give you a slightly false sense of security?

Frankly, I'd be surprised. As many people point out, you're likely to get plenty of other injuries if you come off. There may be an effect of feeling "exposed" if you're used to wearing a helmet but since those that don't wear them consider them of little/no value, I'd have thought the effect was relatively small.

wgwarburton

Blacktemplar wrote:

Does anyone feel they ride "less safely" when they wear a helmet? i.e. does wearing one give you a slightly false sense of security?
....

I feel less safe when I'm wearing a helmet. My head feels bulkier and I can't tell how much by. I don't like the added weight and I have this bizarre feeling that something's about to catch on it and twist my neck.

I daresay this is totally irrational. On the other hand it's made me look into the pros & cons of helmet wearing as deeply as I can over the years and I'm yet to be convinced that there's any real benefit to "getting over it".

Cheers,
W.

EKE_38BPM

I've had two offs at speed and in both of them I did a somersault and landed on my back but in neither of them did my helmet hit the deck or anything else other than when I way laying flat on my back.

I don't think the helmet saved me from any serious injuries (maybe a little road rash just prior to stopping though), but in the second off, it may have made the whiplash I suffered worse due to the extra rotational mass.

Do I wear a helmet: Most of the time.
Would I tell anyone else to: Definitely not
Would I make any kids I may have in the future wear a helmet*: Doubt it
Would I protest any mandatory cycle helmet law: Yes
Would I flout that law if it came into effect: Yes, but I'm bloody-minded like that. I think it stems from a bang to the head during a cycling accident.


*yeah, I'm thinking of the children

prj45

SimonAH wrote:

Can I see a safety downside in wearing one? No.

There are several.

This is the big one though:

Cyclists who wear protective helmets are more likely to be knocked down by passing vehicles, new research from Bath University suggests.

The study found drivers tend to pass closer when overtaking cyclists wearing helmets than those who are bare-headed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm

bigmat

prj45 wrote:

SimonAH wrote:

Can I see a safety downside in wearing one? No.

There are several.

This is the big one though:

Cyclists who wear protective helmets are more likely to be knocked down by passing vehicles, new research from Bath University suggests.

The study found drivers tend to pass closer when overtaking cyclists wearing helmets than those who are bare-headed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm

That bo11ocks? People actually believe that?! :shock:

meanredspider

Yup - that study was total nonsense. The difference in distance was small and I don't know of anybody that was knocked off like this. If it made the difference to being left-hooked, THEN I'd be interested. The conclusion of that study is that we should all wear blonde wigs....

Greg T

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Would I flout that law if it came into effect: Yes, but I'm bloody-minded like that. I think it stems from a bang to the head during a cycling accident.

Arf Arf Arf

JamesB5446

That study isn't great. But it's far more useful than "I fell off and I SWEAR I would have died without my helmet".

veronese68

In the aftermath of my being knocked off my well intentioned, but disillusioned, sister posted a link to a French article about the dangers of cycling on Faecesbook. My Dad, in response, posted a link to that NY Times article. That made me smile.
I will continue to wear a crash helmet most of the time to help appease the EPO. She will still worry, I don't think any amount of armour will stop her worrying about me.

EKE_38BPM

Veronese68 wrote:

I
I will continue to wear a crash helmet most of the time to help appease the EPO. She will still worry, I don't think any amount of armour will stop her worrying about me.

I bet you wouldn't have it any other way.

walkingbootweather

prj45 wrote:

SimonAH wrote:

Can I see a safety downside in wearing one? No.

There are several.

This is the big one though:

Cyclists who wear protective helmets are more likely to be knocked down by passing vehicles, new research from Bath University suggests.

The study found drivers tend to pass closer when overtaking cyclists wearing helmets than those who are bare-headed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm

You want to try riding bare-bottomed. People give you a REALLY wide berth then.