While we're talking photography... PC or Mac!?

2

Comments

  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Been using Macs for the past 25 years, both professionally and at home, wouldn't use anything else ...I wouldn't give you five pence for windoze ....
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    Hoopdriver wrote:
    To this all I can say is that in many many years of working with some of the world best magazines and photographers I cannot, off the top of my head anyway, recall any of them using anything other than Macs
    Must be coincidence...
    Of course it's not coincidence. It's history, familiarity, transferability of skills between people working in the same industry, inertia, and aesthetics.

    None of which has anything to do with what's best for someone that's already familiar with Windows, the Windows version of the software he uses, and possibly a more moderate budget.
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    giant man wrote:
    Been using Macs for the past 25 years, both professionally and at home...
    This is my point - there's no reason on earth why you should change, and it would be silly for anyone to suggest you should.

    But that doesn't mean that anyone using Windows is doing the wrong thing, or that they should necessarily change to Mac just because certain people, for very good reasons, also use them.

    I've said enough - Mac vs Windows seems to light the blue touch paper for so many people.

    To the OP - just ensure whatever you choose is suitably specced, and enjoy it.
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • Hoopdriver
    Hoopdriver Posts: 2,023
    No. There's a reason that the overwhelming majority of media types, myself included, use and continue to use Macs (and paying a premium to do so,I might add) and it has nothing to do with inertia or lazy familiarity.

    The OP asked for advice on getting a computer that could handle large photo files - it seems well within reason to me to point out that most professionals use Macs. If that offends your Windows-loving sensibilities, my apologies, but there it is.
    http://www.My-Bicycle-and-I.com
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Heavymental wrote:
    Peripherals.. keyboard, mouse, external CD/DVD drive, immediate memory upgrade.
    Keyboard and mouse are needed for any computer and are not OS specific. Well, maybe the Mac one is but the OP doesn't have one. :wink:
    I am in the process of replacing my CD/DVD drive for an extra SSD drive as I no longer need the CD/DVD drive. Do people still use them often? The only reason I canthink of is CDs for the car.
    Memory upgrade is simple and cheap to do yourself.

    Thanks for answering but i doubt this is helping the OP. :oops:
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    Hoopdriver wrote:
    lazy familiarity.
    Please don't put words in my mouth. I meant nothing bad by familiarity. Sticking with what you have, if it's good and meets your requirements, is a good reason for not changing. Changing is pointless if you already have top-notch equipment and it meets your requirements.
    it seems well within reason to me to point out that most professionals use Macs. If that offends your Windows-loving sensibilities, my apologies, but there it is.
    It really doesn't offend me :)

    I have the greatest respect for Apple kit. It's just not for everyone, and people that don't use it aren't necessarily doing the wrong thing. And if they're already used to something else, that meets their needs, there's probably no need to change.

    Sorry I spoke, I'll try and keep to bikes in future. :)
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • Hoopdriver
    Hoopdriver Posts: 2,023
    ChrisAOnABike wrote:
    Hoopdriver wrote:
    lazy familiarity.
    Please don't put words in my mouth. I meant nothing bad by familiarity. Sticking with what you have, if it's good and meets your requirements, is a good reason for not changing. Changing is pointless if you already have top-notch equipment and it meets your requirements.
    it seems well within reason to me to point out that most professionals use Macs. If that offends your Windows-loving sensibilities, my apologies, but there it is.
    It really doesn't offend me :)

    I have the greatest respect for Apple kit. It's just not for everyone, and people that don't use it aren't necessarily doing the wrong thing. And if they're already used to something else, that meets their needs, there's probably no need to change.

    Sorry I spoke, I'll try and keep to bikes in future. :)
    A tiny but not insignificant point and then we'll let this go - I did not put words in your mouth. The phrase 'lazy familiarity' was not in quotations or in any way presented as direct speech by you; it was my term, my usage and clearly so.
    http://www.My-Bicycle-and-I.com
  • chrisaonabike
    chrisaonabike Posts: 1,914
    Hoopdriver wrote:
    A tiny but not insignificant point and then we'll let this go - I did not put words in your mouth. The phrase 'lazy familiarity' was not in quotations or in any way presented as direct speech by you; it was my term, my usage and clearly so.
    Fair enough. In that case, we probably agree that lazy familiarity is a bad reason for sticking with things, but by the same token, I wasn't implying that anyone who favours Macs and stays with them is doing so out of lazy anything. It's great kit, and no-one in their right mind would deny it.

    My point really, is just this: that even if Macs are the best, and even if most pros use them in preference for all sorts of good reasons, that isn't in itself a good reason for changing from Windows to Mac. Any modern PC with a 64 bit OS, 8GB of RAM or more, and ideally an SSD, coupled with a good calibrated monitor, will be a complete revelation after an ageing clunky laptop, and to the OP's specific point, will handle large image files perfectly well.

    Must admit, I'd love a retina screen myself :) Sadly, I don't actually need it badly enough :)
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • declan1
    declan1 Posts: 2,470
    Haven't read the thread, but my recommendation is PC.

    Don't think I'm an Apple-hater - I absolutely LOVE Macs. However they aren't upgradable (unless you get a pro) so in a few years you'd have to buy a whole new one instead of just upgrading a PC.

    Road - Dolan Preffisio
    MTB - On-One Inbred

    I have no idea what's going on here.
  • Hoopdriver
    Hoopdriver Posts: 2,023
    ChrisAOnABike wrote:
    Hoopdriver wrote:
    A tiny but not insignificant point and then we'll let this go - I did not put words in your mouth. The phrase 'lazy familiarity' was not in quotations or in any way presented as direct speech by you; it was my term, my usage and clearly so.
    Fair enough. In that case, we probably agree that lazy familiarity is a bad reason for sticking with things, but by the same token, I wasn't implying that anyone who favours Macs and stays with them is doing so out of lazy anything. It's great kit, and no-one in their right mind would deny it.

    My point really, is just this: that even if Macs are the best, and even if most pros use them in preference for all sorts of good reasons, that isn't in itself a good reason for changing from Windows to Mac. Any modern PC with a 64 bit OS, 8GB of RAM or more, and ideally an SSD, coupled with a good calibrated monitor, will be a complete revelation after an ageing clunky laptop, and to the OP's specific point, will handle large image files perfectly well.

    Must admit, I'd love a retina screen myself :) Sadly, I don't actually need it badly enough :)
    Yeah, the retina screens look fabulous, but I too cannot justify buying one...alas
    http://www.My-Bicycle-and-I.com
  • Giraffoto
    Giraffoto Posts: 2,078
    gasman_dave wrote:
    Shimano, Nikon, Mac . . .
    Shimano, Nikon, PC for me*. With a PC you can have multiple hard drives without forking out for a Mac Pro - and if you're doing this properly the smart way to set your machine up is to have . . .
    • Operating system drive - fast, ~500Gb
    • Data drive - not necessarily so fast, 1Tb +
    • Duplicate drive, identical to the data drive
    • (optional) Scratch drive - SSD or hybrid, 50Gb or so
    The scratch drive allows Photoshop to run faster. Having the two data drives means that you're protected against drive failures (i.e., both have to fail before you lose anything) but do make sure you have at least two off-system backups as well. Do the duplication manually - it's very quick and less hassle than setting up RAID.

    Also, conversion to JPG should be the last thing you do - it's the point at which you lose the most data. Do as much as you can in RAW, translate it into 16-Bit TIFF for the things you can't do in RAW, and finally get it into a compressed format as the final stage.

    * That's me, not you, not, "use a PC or I'll kill you", I use a PC because it's what I'm familiar with, and it's about a quarter the price of an equivalent Mac if you want four or more HDDs. Other makes of camera and bicycle component are terrific too
    Specialized Roubaix Elite 2015
    XM-057 rigid 29er
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    edit... looks like ^^^ got in before me! So +1 to ^^^^

    The hardware on an Mac and PC are now the same - both Intel - so there is little difference in performance - as you are comparing apples with apples (same CPU's etc)

    What one person calls 'large files' other people call 'small files'...

    e.g. stitching six 24MPixel files together and working with 10+ layers... then you can forget attempting to do this with 2GB RAM :-)
    And obviously if you are wanting to run Lightroom and various other applications all at the same time, your RAM requirements will increase.

    If I was specing a new PC for photo editing (for big files)...

    - Decent IPS colour calibrated monitor and a calibration device.
    - SSD for the OS
    - 2x HDD for Data & Backup
    - SSD for Scratch
    - 16GB RAM (or 32GB as memory is cheap!)
    - i5 or i7 - 4 Core CPU

    Most of the specs above are also relevant to a Mac if this is your preference. SSD's are pretty cheap nowadays, and the OS and Scratch disks don't need to be huge.

    The decision for PC or Mac is either cost or the applications you want to run. If you want to run iPhoto, there is little point in getting a PC. If Adobe products, both are supported, etc

    One mistake that people make when buying a PC is that they look for the cheapest PC with the best (on paper) specification. Mac's use quality components that make them reliable, so do yourself a favour and buy a decent quality PC rather than the cheapest PC. My recommendation would be to go for a custom from a reputable retailer (such as scan.co.uk within the UK).... or something like a decent brand off the shelf unit. Obviously by going custom, you can get exactly what you want.

    If your requirements are less, then the spec can be reduced.
    Simon
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Hoopdriver wrote:
    ChrisAOnABike wrote:
    ................
    Must admit, I'd love a retina screen myself :) Sadly, I don't actually need it badly enough :)
    Yeah, the retina screens look fabulous, but I too cannot justify buying one...alas
    Funnily enough I was in the market for one last week and had the cash.
    I decided that I would rather have the 17" screen so got a refurbished matte screen version, maxed out the RAM and I am now swapping out the DVD drive for a SSD. All for less than the retina and it should fly.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • The Ors
    The Ors Posts: 130
    I am gob-smacked!

    Peeps talking about Mac vs PC on an internet thread and all we're getting is good, reasoned advice. No* toy's being thrown, no* mindless FUD. Amazing!

    My faith in humanity is restored. :lol:

    (* well, very little)
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    The Ors wrote:
    I am gob-smacked!

    Peeps talking about Mac vs PC on an internet thread and all we're getting is good, reasoned advice. No* toy's being thrown, no* mindless FUD. Amazing!

    My faith in humanity is restored. :lol:

    (* well, very little)
    Yeah. I was reply No.1 and was expecting a total flame. Surprisingly sensible posts. Must say something about the posters. :wink:
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • heavymental
    heavymental Posts: 2,091
    ^^ Very true! I wasn't expecting such reasoned debate and good suggestions I must admit! Just been around a mates house who suggested building a PC. Think I may well do that. Spec it as per the suggestions above, buy a second small monitor to have the internet open while I also do photos on my big monitor (as I do with my laptop currently) and keep the laptop for those times where I need to take a computer somewhere, which is very rare for me.

    By the way, I'm aware converting to JPEG should be the last stage but as I have a very old version of PS currently, I am forced to convert to JPEG first as my version doesn't open the RAW files. I'm looking forward to getting some serious RAM and quickly opening RAW files in PS5 for editing.

    Just had a look at scan.co.uk but it's all greek to me at the moment! Any estimation on price for some of the setups mentioned above? Have emailed scan to see what they suggest.

    Didn't want to spend over 1k all in with keyboard etc.

    Dell seems to have some good deals too? http://www.dell.com/uk/p/desktops?~ck=m ... ort=-price
  • Giraffoto
    Giraffoto Posts: 2,078
    Also try PC Specialist for a custom PC. Not tried them but they look pretty good, and you get to choose every component
    Specialized Roubaix Elite 2015
    XM-057 rigid 29er
  • Hoopdriver
    Hoopdriver Posts: 2,023
    I would also, if I were you, look at upgrading your photo processing software - I think you said you were on CS1 in an earlier post. Lots and lots has happened in software since CS1 was trotted out. We're at CS6 now. That said, the complete Photoshop is expensive. Lightroom (now on version 4.2) is a very handy package and used by a lot of professionals. It is considerably cheaper than buying CS6 and will do a splendid job - you will be pleasantly surprised at what you'll be able to do.
    http://www.My-Bicycle-and-I.com
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    For choosing a monitor, see: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk

    Would personally spend the extra and go for a true 8 bit panel (such as 24" Dell U2410 etc)
    Simon
  • heavymental
    heavymental Posts: 2,091
    Cheers chaps, already got a decent Viewsonic IPS monitor which is partly why I was reluctant to go with the Mac. Also got a copy of CS5 ready to go.

    Ah on www.pcspecialist.co.uk after choosing the options, one of these is £633. Seems ok? Doesn't give an option for a SSC drive?

    Case
    STYLISH PIANO BLACK ENIGMA MICRO-ATX CASE + 2 FRONT USB
    Processor (CPU)
    Intel® Core™i5 Quad Core Processor i5-3470 (3.2GHz) 6MB Cache
    Motherboard
    ASUS® P8H77-M: M-ATX, DDR3, USB 3.0, SATA 6.0Gb/s, CrossFireX™
    Memory (RAM)
    16GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (4 X 4GB)
    Graphics Card
    INTEGRATED GRAPHICS ACCELERATOR (GPU)
    Memory - 1st Hard Disk
    1TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD1002FAEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)
    2nd Hard Disk
    1TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD1002FAEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm
    1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
    24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
    Memory Card Reader
    INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
    Power Supply
    350W Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan
    Processor Cooling
    INTEL SOCKET LGA1155 STANDARD CPU COOLER
    Sound Card
    ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
    Network Facilities
    10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT - AS STANDARD ON ALL PCs
    USB Options
    4 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL (MIN 2 FRONT PORTS) AS STANDARD
    Operating System
    Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence (£79)
    Office Software
    FREE Microsoft® Office Starter 2010 (Limited functionality Word & Excel)
    Anti-Virus
    NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
    Warranty
    3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
    Delivery
    STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)

    Build Time
    Standard Build - Approximately 9 to 11 working days
    Quantity 1
  • Giraffoto
    Giraffoto Posts: 2,078
    Heavymental wrote:
    Cheers chaps, already got a decent Viewsonic IPS monitor which is partly why I was reluctant to go with the Mac. Also got a copy of CS5 ready to go.

    Ah on http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk after choosing the options, one of these is £633. Seems ok? Doesn't give an option for a SSC drive?

    [see above]

    Looks pretty good. I'd add . . .
    (1) Consider a bigger case, so you have room for other bits and bobs later
    (2) Deselect the card reader option, you should already have one and it won't be as fast as the best external ones
    (3) Perhaps a smaller main drive and the 1Tb ones as second/third - it depends how you want to do your workflow
    (4) A separate graphics card
    Specialized Roubaix Elite 2015
    XM-057 rigid 29er
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    - Pay a little extra and get a stylish case (FRACTAL DEFINE R4?)
    - Get a better PSU - (Corsair 650?)

    When the inevitable happens and you want more power, you'll have a nice looking chassis and can easily upgrade by buying one of the various 'upgrade bundles' that are available, and just like a decent monitor, a decent chassis and PSU will last you years.
    Simon
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    Case - FRACTAL DEFINE R4 BLACK PEARL QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
    Processor (CPU) - Intel® Core™i5 Quad Core Processor i5-3470 (3.2GHz) 6MB Cache
    Motherboard - ASUS® P8H77-M: M-ATX, DDR3, USB 3.0, SATA 6.0Gb/s, CrossFireX™
    Memory (RAM) - 16GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 8GB)
    Graphics Card - INTEGRATED GRAPHICS ACCELERATOR (GPU)
    Memory - 1st Hard Disk - 90GB KINGSTON HYPERX 3K SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 555MB/sR | 510MB/sW)
    2nd Hard Disk - 2TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD2002FAEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)
    1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive - 24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
    Power Supply - CORSAIR 650W ENTHUSIAST SERIES™ TX650 V2-80 PLUS® BRONZE (£69)
    Processor Cooling - INTEL SOCKET LGA1155 STANDARD CPU COOLER
    Sound Card - ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
    Network Facilities - 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT - AS STANDARD ON ALL PCs
    USB Options - 4 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL (MIN 2 FRONT PORTS) AS STANDARD
    Operating System - Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence (£79)
    Office Software - FREE Microsoft® Office Starter 2010 (Limited functionality Word & Excel)
    Anti-Virus - NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
    Warranty - 3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
    Delivery - STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)

    £847.00

    You might also want to 'upgrade' to one of the more expensive coolers - can help make the system run (a) cooler & (b) quieter
    Simon
  • Giraffoto
    Giraffoto Posts: 2,078
    springtide9 wrote:
    - Pay a little extra and get a stylish case (FRACTAL DEFINE R4?)
    - Get a better PSU - (Corsair 650?)

    When the inevitable happens and you want more power, you'll have a nice looking chassis and can easily upgrade by buying one of the various 'upgrade bundles' that are available, and just like a decent monitor, a decent chassis and PSU will last you years.

    Good call! I like that case, it would be like having the monolith from 2001 on your desk :)
    Specialized Roubaix Elite 2015
    XM-057 rigid 29er
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    I would try for an i7 and USB3 (for future proof) but other than that, your selection will work fine.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • craprider
    craprider Posts: 111
    buy both and compare?
  • heavymental
    heavymental Posts: 2,091
    That's a fine idea crappy!

    Is a psu not a standard thing!? £70 on a psu upgrade seems a lot.

    Also would an i7 make much difference?
  • heavymental
    heavymental Posts: 2,091
    Or this for £860 from Scan.co.uk....

    Not too bothered about a good looking case by the way as I plan to have it under the desk.

    Components 0 QTY Specification Link No. Totals
    System £79.24 1 Scan V20 System
    Case £28.33 1 Cooler Master Elite 334U Black Mid Tower 41541
    PSU £0.00 1 Corsair CP-9020047-UK Builder Series CX 500W 47075
    Motherboard £66.77 1 Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H Intel Z77 Socket 1155 Ivybridge 43806
    CPU £210.17 1 Intel CPU Core i7 3770K Quad Core IvyBridge 42833
    CPU Cooler £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Memory £50.12 1 Corsair Vengeance LP Black 16GB DDR3 1600 MHz 40236
    GPU £76.65 1 EVGA GeForce GTX 650 Superclocked 46905
    Sound card £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    SSD £33.33 1 OCZ 120GB Vertex Plus SSD 40286
    Storage Drives £45.89 2 Seagate 1TB SATA 3 Performance Hard Drive OEM 42410
    System Drives £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Water Cooled GPU £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Overclock CPU £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Optical Drive 1 £10.79 1 Samsung SATA 22x DVD Writer SH-S222BB/BEBE 42410
    Optical Drive 2 £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Card Reader £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Tubing £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Coolant £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Case Fans £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Case Fans £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Monitor £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Software £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Keyboard / Mouse £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Cables £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Cables £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Other Hardware £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Other Hardware £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Other Hardware £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Other Hardware £0.00 0 NONE NONE
    Other Hardware £0.00 0 NONE
    Operating System £60.70 1 Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit OEM 29161
    Build + 1YR OS £0.00 1 NONE
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Heavymental wrote:
    Also would an i7 make much difference?
    To be honest, i haven't a clue but I am sure someone will.
    I always plan on having a machine capable of running for the next 5 years so just think having everything at the latest version (but not early adopter) is safer in the long run.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • heavymental
    heavymental Posts: 2,091
    daviesee wrote:
    Heavymental wrote:
    Also would an i7 make much difference?
    To be honest, i haven't a clue but I am sure someone will.
    I always plan on having a machine capable of running for the next 5 years so just think having everything at the latest version (but not early adopter) is safer in the long run.

    I think I'm going to downgrade the suggested specs slightly to make it nearer to £600 to allow me to get a nice keyboard and other stuff and still remain well below the cost of an iMac. I think the 16gb memory and updated processor should be a vast improvement over my current clunky laptop and although I'll be dealing with big files, I won't be doing anything too heavy so think I can back off a little bit to save some cash.

    This version has a 128gb SSD as the 1st Drive and a 1tb drive as the second. Is the SSD definately a better option for the 1st drive? I do have several external HD's too so I'm not short of storage currently. This one comes in at just over £600 which is more appealing.

    Case
    STYLISH PIANO BLACK ENIGMA MICRO-ATX CASE + 2 FRONT USB
    Processor (CPU)
    Intel® Core™i5 Quad Core Processor i5-3570 (3.4GHz) 6MB Cache
    Motherboard
    ASUS® P8H77-M: M-ATX, DDR3, USB 3.0, SATA 6.0Gb/s, CrossFireX™
    Memory (RAM)
    16GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (4 X 4GB)
    Graphics Card
    INTEGRATED GRAPHICS ACCELERATOR (GPU)
    Memory - 1st Hard Disk
    128GB KINGSTON V200 SSD, SATA 6 Gb (300MB/R, 190MB/W) (Special Offer)
    2nd Hard Disk
    1TB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 32MB CACHE
    1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
    24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
    Memory Card Reader
    INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
    Power Supply
    350W Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan
    Processor Cooling
    INTEL SOCKET LGA1155 STANDARD CPU COOLER
    Sound Card
    ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
    Network Facilities
    10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT - AS STANDARD ON ALL PCs
    USB Options
    4 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL (MIN 2 FRONT PORTS) AS STANDARD
    Operating System
    Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence (£79)
    Office Software
    FREE Microsoft® Office Starter 2010 (Limited functionality Word & Excel)
    Anti-Virus
    NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
    Warranty
    3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)

    Also, there are options on the Dell site...

    http://www.dell.com/uk/p/desktops?~ck=m ... sort=price

    This thread is shedding readers now I'm sure so any pointers are appreciated at this stage!

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