rear shock

pesky_jones

I have recently bought a second hand orange patriot 7+ and am slightly concerned about the rear shock, i have a elastic band round the shock which will get pushed to a half an inch away from bottoming out without any major drops etc, is this normal?

Also first time i have ridden full suspension and was surprised by the whooshing sound the shock makes when compressed...once again, normal?

Cheers

bails87

What type of shock? Has the spring/air pressure been set to give you the right sag?

Wooshing sound is probably damping of some sort.

pesky_jones

bails87 wrote:

What type of shock? Has the spring/air pressure been set to give you the right sag?

Wooshing sound is probably damping of some sort.

the shock is a manitou 4 way swinger air, and no the air presure has not yet been set, i havnt got a shock pump yet so am unable to set the right pressure. Hoping this is the reason!

Cheers

The Rookie

Set it up first, you risk damaging it riding it with that much sag! (In fact it may already be too late).
As the damper is doing more work than designed due to what is probably a lack of air pressure, a whooshing sound isn't unexpected.

pesky_jones

The Beginner wrote:

Set it up first, you risk damaging it riding it with that much sag! (In fact it may already be too late).
As the damper is doing more work than designed due to what is probably a lack of air pressure, a whooshing sound isn't unexpected.

ok, i have only ridden it once or twice and no heavy riding since i bought it, so fingers crossed not too much damage has been done. I need to get my hands on a shock pump it looks like!

From what i have read, the basic procedure is 2/3rds of my weight in psi into both valves? am i right?

Cheers

bennett_346

On a side note having a shock called "4 way swinger" is plain hilarious.

I'm not sure i can handle that level of double innuendo outside the crudcatcher.

cooldad

I will restrain myself and not mention that missnotax is single now.

mrmonkfinger

MTB_TR wrote:

From what i have read, the basic procedure is 2/3rds of my weight in psi into both valves? am i right?

Nope.

The basic procedure is as much air as is required to get the sag right.


Followed by whatever noodling around the rebound and compression and platform controls need.

pesky_jones

I'm not sure if i correctly described the issue, the sag is only about 1/4 - 1/5 of the travel... the elastic band reaches a half inch away from bottoming out after a reasonable drop (1 footish) but this is not a huge drop so i was worried on a bigger drop it may be close to bottoming out...

bennett_346

If the sag is correct, that sounds normal to me. But make sure the sag is actually correct because you may be measuring it wrong. Maybe you're landing a bit rear heavy or the forks are set too firm and aren't taking the correct proportion of the force relative to the rear.

pesky_jones

bennett_346 wrote:

But make sure the sag is actually correct because you may be measuring it wrong.

Sorry could you just clarify what the correct way of measuring is? because im just assuming the sag is 1/4 - 1/5 of the visible travel if you know what i mean?

bennett_346

Correct about 20-30% of the full length of the shock stroke, and you should measure it stood in the attack position with ALL your riding kit on, otherwise when you put your full riding kit on you will weigh more and sag more during the ride. Also make sure when you get on to measure it you dont compress the shock past where the sag will be otherwise it'll show more than it actually is (common sense but some do get it wrong).

DCR00

isnt sag for the rear measured while sat on the bike ?

attack position is for fork sag isnt it ?

pesky_jones

bennett_346 wrote:

Also make sure when you get on to measure it you dont compress the shock past where the sag will be otherwise it'll show more than it actually is (common sense but some do get it wrong).

Dont really understand this bit, I was going to roll the band right up the top, then sit on the bike, then measure the distance between the top of the shock stroke and the band, giving my sag which im hoping is a third or less than my total stroke length?

DCR00

think he means when you get off the bike to measure the sag, be carefull about compressing the shock even further

mrmonkfinger

DCR00 wrote:

isnt sag for the rear measured while sat on the bike ?

if I can possibly say this seriously in a discussion about a 4 way swinger, you'd end up with the rear end being too stiff

DCR00

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/w ... ion-23318/

bennett_346

I'd ignore that, it's bollocks.

nicklouse

first things first download the manual and read it before you damage the shock.

Does it have SPV? is that pressure in tolerance? if it is not you WILL damage or have already damaged the shock.

pesky_jones

I spoke to the preivous owner who weighs the same as me, and he said he had it at 250 psi??? sounds a little high?

cooldad

Totally irrelevent. Who knows if he had any idea of what he was doing.
As Nick says - have you read the manual?

pesky_jones

no i cant find the manual online. I measured the sag and its at a 1/7th. I dont know whats going on!

cooldad

No idea if you've posted the year, but
http://www.manitoumtb.com/assets/Owners ... Manual.pdf

The rest
http://www.manitoumtb.com/index.php?page=support

nicklouse

MTB_TR wrote:

I dont know whats going on!

so lets start at the beginning.

what is the year? see link above and download manual.

on a 7+ I would be looking at 25-30% sag

pesky_jones

Ive had a look at the manual and seen that i need the SPV pressure at about 70% my weight. Apart from that i can't see any other way of adjusting the sag. will the airpressure in the SPV pressure do this for me? i know you guys have given me everything i need but ive been looking at it for bout an hour and can't seem to figure it out. such a noob!

mrmonkfinger

SPV does not set sag (although it might stop the shock moving, so could get in the way of sorting the sag out)

Main air chamber sets sag.


You must have at least 50psi in the SPV chamber, from memory. Or the shock will be damaged. This is quite important. DO check this figure in the manual. 50psi is what my shock needs, but yours may be a bit different. So double check this.


So I'd set the SPV to 60psi (or whatever is a "safe minimum" pressure) until you have the sag sorted. At a low pressure the SPV will not have much of any platform effect and won't get in the way of sorting out the sag. So do that, set it SPV with a low pressure, and then forget about the SPV for now.


For the main chamber, start with, I dunno, about 40-50psi, in the main chamber, see what sag you get. Probably lots. Add pressure until you get the sag correct. Do not mess with anything but the main chamber until you get this correct.


After you have sorted the main air chamber, the next adjustment to sort out is rebound.

And after rebound, SPV can be pressured up, until you have just about dialled out pedal bob.

And finally, the volume / bottom-out thingy, can be noodled with, to deal with bigger drops & jumps & crazy gnarcore freeride tricks.


disclaimer: all this could be bollocks. I don't have a swinger. However I do have a similar manitou shock.

pesky_jones

mrmonkfinger wrote:

SPV does not set sag (although it might stop the shock moving, so could get in the way of sorting the sag out)

Main air chamber sets sag.


You must have at least 50psi in the SPV chamber, from memory. Or the shock will be damaged. This is quite important. DO check this figure in the manual. 50psi is what my shock needs, but yours may be a bit different. So double check this.


So I'd set the SPV to 60psi (or whatever is a "safe minimum" pressure) until you have the sag sorted. At a low pressure the SPV will not have much of any platform effect and won't get in the way of sorting out the sag. So do that, set it SPV with a low pressure, and then forget about the SPV for now.


For the main chamber, start with, I dunno, about 40-50psi, in the main chamber, see what sag you get. Probably lots. Add pressure until you get the sag correct. Do not mess with anything but the main chamber until you get this correct.


After you have sorted the main air chamber, the next adjustment to sort out is rebound.

And after rebound, SPV can be pressured up, until you have just about dialled out pedal bob.

And finally, the volume / bottom-out thingy, can be noodled with, to deal with bigger drops & jumps & crazy gnarcore freeride tricks.


disclaimer: all this could be bollocks. I don't have a swinger. However I do have a similar manitou shock.

Cheers mate thats helped loads, i really apreciate you taking the time to give a step by step for dummies!