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Is this year's season over?

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  • ThomThom wrote:
    They are cobbled classics and ardennes classics.

    OK, so are you saying that all the cobbled or Ardenne classics are the same, that there is no difference between them in terms of prestige? And the Tour of Lombardy is better than all of them?
  • Lets not be in any doubt that all the races above are total heavyweights. MSR I'd say is definitely the "easiest" - just be able to deal with the distance, Poggio, descent and sprint.

    Re Lombarida, good read:
    http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fulls ... est%20News
    lomdy52-cover.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Contador is the Greatest
  • And while we are at it, an hour from 2010:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FudfOB8KcyI
    Contador is the Greatest
  • thomthomthomthom Posts: 3,574
    ThomThom wrote:
    They are cobbled classics and ardennes classics.

    OK, so are you saying that all the cobbled or Ardenne classics are the same, that there is no difference between them in terms of prestige? And the Tour of Lombardy is better than all of them?

    Wait, what? You said they weren't classics - I said they were. I've never said there was no difference between them. Tour De France and Vuelta are both Grand Tours - but one of them is obviously more prestigious. That doesn't make the Vuelta less of a GT.

    Yes. I think Lombardy is better than the races I've mentioned in here. You are welcome to tell me which race - that I've mentioned - that is better.

    And I can help you on that one. I've mentioned; Gent, Amstel, Fleche, Dwars, Scheldeprijs, Nokere-Koerse and E3.
  • ThomThom wrote:
    Wait, what? You said they weren't classics - I said they were. I've never said there was no difference between them. Tour De France and Vuelta are both Grand Tours - but one of them is obviously more prestigious. That doesn't make the Vuelta less of a GT.

    Yes. I think Lombardy is better than the races I've mentioned in here. You are welcome to tell me which race - that I've mentioned - that is better.

    OK, so with my pedantic hat on. You originally said...
    ThomThom wrote:
    What's with the hate on a race that is twice as good as most of the March/April-classics?

    And then...
    ThomThom wrote:
    Eh, Gent, E3, Fleche are all classics. They would be considered cobbled classics for the former two and Ardennes classics for the latter one. There was a point in not writing more than Gent, Amstel and Fleche in my post you replied earlier.

    So you consider the classics between March and April to be Gent Wevelgem, E3 Harelbeke, Fleche Wallone and Amstel. But what about Milan San Remo, Tour of Flanders, Paris Roubaix and Liege Bastogne Liege? Are they not classics as well? Surely that makes 4 races equal to the Tour of Lombardy and 4 lesser races. That's not more, is it?

    Oh wait, don't tell me, races like Paris Roubaix and Milan san Remo are monuments?

    OK, maybe I didn't get which races you meant and I'll agree with you that Lombardy is a more prestigious race than the others you have listed. But I still say that races like Fleche Wallone are semi classics.
  • thomthomthomthom Posts: 3,574
    I'm confused now. Why would I mention M-SR, Flanders, P-R and L-B-L when Lombardy is not bigger than them (I personally thing it's a better race than M-SR but I doubt the riders would rather win Lombardy over M-SR). Is it the 'most of the' that confuses? Okay, then lets change it to a "Lombardy is twice as good as a great deal of the races in March/April"

    Could we shake hand on that? It's getting tiresome this. :)
  • ThomThom wrote:
    I'm confused now. Why would I mention M-SR, Flanders, P-R and L-B-L when Lombardy is not bigger than them (I personally thing it's a better race than M-SR but I doubt the riders would rather win Lombardy over M-SR). Is it the 'most of the' that confuses? Okay, then lets change it to a "Lombardy is twice as good as a great deal of the races in March/April"

    Could we shake hand on that? It's getting tiresome this. :)

    Yeah, no worries. I'm sure everyone else is getting bored of reading this as well.

    As I said before, I reckon they are all about equal. I like the different character each of them has and I'm sure pretty much any rider would love to win Lombardy as much as Milan San Remo or Flanders. I'm looking forward to Saturday's race, hope it's a good one! :D

    (that was of course rubbish, we all know Paris Roubaix is by far the best...)
  • knedlickyknedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Lets not be in any doubt that all the races above are total heavyweights. MSR I'd say is definitely the "easiest" - just be able to deal with the distance, Poggio, descent and sprint.
    It may be easiest in topography, road surface or other aspects, but the first major race of a season not only has the associated prestige and glamour but requires the necessary condition, form and ability to deal with the distance, which few riders normally have that early in the year. And thus it exceeds it's apparent 'easiness'.

    It's worth noting that the years Zabel won were usually the years he did 6-day races in winter, so he came to M-SR with more condition than his competitors.

    Lombardy might be the more interesting race in many aspects, but M-SR is the more intriguing with its decisive last kms. Although not identical, if you liked this year's World Championships's, you should like M-SR (or at least its last kms) because the best principle about how to win is about the same.
  • Doesn't that mean there is less competition. So if you go the extra effort to train in the winter/early season, you are likely to have more of an advantage against racing against a similar field later in the year?

    I like MSR, even if it isn't among my favourites.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • milton50milton50 Posts: 3,856
    I agree with FF here. There's obviously a lot of prestige in winnning M-SR as it's the first monument of the year but it's by far the least impressive spectacle for me.

    I think if Lombardy was moved to earlier in the season it would be considered right up there as one of the races of the season.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 61,496 Lives Here
    Milton50 wrote:
    I agree with FF here. There's obviously a lot of prestige in winnning M-SR as it's the first monument of the year but it's by far the least impressive spectacle for me.

    I think if Lombardy was moved to earlier in the season it would be considered right up there as one of the races of the season.

    If if if if.

    It isn't ergo less prestigious.
  • ocdupalaisocdupalais Posts: 4,037
    Milton50 wrote:

    I think if Lombardy was moved to earlier in the season it would be considered right up there as one of the races of the season.

    They've already moved it forward a week from last year - to encourage more of the riders who targeted the Worlds to ride.
    Not so much "The Race of The Falling Leaves", anymore... apparently, a PR agency suggested renaming it "The Race of The Barely Put Away Deck Chairs". For that consultation, it cost the organisers €20,000.


    Each year I want L-B-L to be the best classic, but it hasn't been for quite a while - but Lombardy has a very unique feel to it (somehow capturing that "end of season" vibe - like watching birds fly off for the Winter or when you start wearing tights and over-shoes on every ride even if it hasn't rained for a day or two) - it's been my fav for the last few years. Often a cracking race.
    Here's Bettini bouncing of the Arnco...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZUwQSQH ... re=related
  • ocdupalaisocdupalais Posts: 4,037
    Flipping heck...

    I've done all my chores and tried to make myself useful, but what with no proper big race today in what must be months, this feels like the longest Sunday ever...

    Checked to see if anything exciting's happened and all there is is a picture of some waiters chinking glasses at the Giro presentation, a humdrum 'cross in the US (with suspiciously un-muddied riders - surely the only time that's allowed is when the temperature is -10c?) and something about Armstrong's auntie and kids being drug dealers, or something... I can't even be arsed to look at what happened in the Tour de Wallonie Chipparde (UCI 2.98)...


    This could be a long, hard Winter...
  • OCDuPalais wrote:
    Flipping heck...

    What was wrong with the Cyclocross Bosduin Kalmthout? OK, it might not have been cold or muddy enough for you.
  • ocdupalaisocdupalais Posts: 4,037
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    Flipping heck...

    What was wrong with the Cyclocross Bosduin Kalmthout? OK, it might not have been cold or muddy enough for you.


    ooh, missed that... must've been when I was gently rocking in my seat trying to test which had better adhesive properties on my forehead - a pound coin or a Euro...

    So far, results inconclusive.


    I wish The Muppets were still on...
  • OCDuPalais wrote:
    ooh, missed that...

    Oh no, you'll be telling me next you missed the GP Neerpelt on Saturday? Suppose those coin experiments are quite important. :wink:
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