Chain jamming into chainstay

robst3

Hey all,

I've got a carbon 456 with SLX 10 speed drivetrain. Experiencing what I thought was chain suck but not so sure now:

When changing down from the large to the small chain ring the chain isn't disengaging from the large ring and gets dragged up past the chainstay and jams there.

I've replaced the chain and both chain rings but it still happens. Photo below shows what is happening - if I pedal any further the chain goes up past the chainstay:

crimsondynamo

My mate has a 456 with a triple set up and he's plagued by chainsuck, despite new chain and rings as you've done.

My own personal theory is that chainsuck occurs on lots of bikes, but most of them have sufficient clearance between the rings and the frame so that the chain never gets wedged up there and the rider doesn't notice.

I'd be interested to see the responses.

The Rookie

You can't do cranks and pedals up with an allen key, you won't create enough torque.

Chunkers1980

Yes you can. My pedals are only Allen key and have never come undone.

Looks like chain suck to me. Fair few articles around with theories as to why it happens/is more prone to happen.

robst3

crimsondynamo wrote:

My mate has a 456 with a triple set up and he's plagued by chainsuck, despite new chain and rings as you've done.

My own personal theory is that chainsuck occurs on lots of bikes, but most of them have sufficient clearance between the rings and the frame so that the chain never gets wedged up there and the rider doesn't notice.

I'd be interested to see the responses.

I fear you may be right... I've read all the chain stuck articles and have done as they recommend and fitted new chain rings/chain at a decent expense but no fix...

Time for a new frame or single chain ring I guess.

robst3

The Beginner wrote:

You can't do cranks and pedals up with an allen key, you won't create enough torque.

Eh? What's that got to do with it??

Chunkers1980

He talks rubbish a lot, but must have mis-read something as I can't work out where he'd get that from. Delhi belly has gone to his head more than normal.

cooldad

robst3 wrote:

crimsondynamo wrote:

My mate has a 456 with a triple set up and he's plagued by chainsuck, despite new chain and rings as you've done.

My own personal theory is that chainsuck occurs on lots of bikes, but most of them have sufficient clearance between the rings and the frame so that the chain never gets wedged up there and the rider doesn't notice.

I'd be interested to see the responses.

I fear you may be right... I've read all the chain stuck articles and have done as they recommend and fitted new chain rings/chain at a decent expense but no fix...

Time for a new frame or single chain ring I guess.

Plenty of people with 456 frames without your problem. I'd say setup.

robst3

Setup as in choice of components or the way they are installed?

bails87

I had this quite a few times on my C456.I changed the rings and chain, and take more care when shifting, and it doesn't seem to be a problem anymore. I don't know if it's the rings or the caution that's made the difference.

The Rookie

robst3 wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

You can't do cranks and pedals up with an allen key, you won't create enough torque.

Eh? What's that got to do with it??

was answering a different thread on my phone, not the first time the reply has been put in wrong thread, first time I haven't spotted an deleted it!

robst3

The Beginner wrote:

robst3 wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

You can't do cranks and pedals up with an allen key, you won't create enough torque.

Eh? What's that got to do with it??

was answering a different thread on my phone, not the first time the reply has been put in wrong thread, first time I haven't spotted an deleted it!

Ah... thought that might be the case.

robst3

bails87 wrote:

I had this quite a few times on my C456.I changed the rings and chain, and take more care when shifting, and it doesn't seem to be a problem anymore. I don't know if it's the rings or the caution that's made the difference.

Hmm, I was testing it yesterday afternoon after swapping the rings/chain by pedaling very gently round the garden and it still happened about one every three times I changed down from the middle to small ring, so don't think it's a lack of caution here.

I'm running a 10 speed slx drive train, now with a kmc x10 93 chain, deore small and middle chain rings and a bash instead of a large chain ring. Have swapped out the original triple front derailleur for the slx double specific version. All components installed and set up according to the Shimano tech docs.

The Rookie

My seem a silly question, but what chain lube? As the chain appears to be hanging up on the middle ring when changing down, a well (wet) lubed chain may slip of more easily until it's 'bedded in' (sharp edges taken off).

Have a look at rear mech setup, the more tension that creates, the more likely it is to pull the chain off the middle ring perhaps? Other than Gravity it's only the rear mech force acting to pull the chain off that ring, If you have a clutched mech that would make it worse.....

bazza333

I have exactly the same issue on a Giant - always have right from new. It's had different cranks/chainrings/chains/lubes and it still does it. Recently a technician from SRAM (not an LBS) looked at it and moved the front derailleur across so it gives it more of a "push" - it's helped but not stopped it. In my case the chain gets hooked up and carried round on the shifting pins.

crimsondynamo

To add tension, what about only changing rings with the chain in the middle of the cassette (i.e never in the smaller sprockets), also remove a couple of chainlinks? Just a thought.

Danny-T

I had this on my Trek Remedy, lots of lube fixed it as the chain leaves the chainring smoother without carrying around but after a muddy ride it still sometimes misbehaves. I also found wedging a chainstay protector to the front of the chainstay helped by making the space between chainset and chainstay too small for the chain to fit.

crimsondynamo

Plenty of people with 456 frames without your problem. I'd say setup.

To be fair, there are plenty of people with 456 frames WITH this problem. The OP is by no means alone. The numerous threads searching for a solution attest to this. There does seem to be a trick involving zip-ties which seems to be pretty reliable.

Out of interest, note the massive chainring clearances on Brant Richards Ragley bikes.

Chunkers1980

There are also plenty of people with chain suck problems. The frame is only chain line related.

crimsondynamo

Yes but a bit of chainsuck for whatever reason (mud, grit, ring/chain manufacturer, frame alignment tolerances etc) is not an issue on frames with more clearance.

For example on my HT I've never knowingly experienced chainsuck, but the inner drive side chainstay has layers of paint scuffed off it. I guess the chain must have been up there a few times but sprung loose without me noticing. With my mate's 456 it gets wedged up good and proper.

Chunkers1980

Yes but the picture the OP has shown has nothing to do with clearance. It is sucked, knowing it happens by marks is frame specific, it happening has nothing to do with the frame, chain line and stay length/angle apart, but even that will vary depending on what gear you're in.

paulneenan76

This may be stating he bleeding obvious but could the people at On One shed any light on this???

I'm doing a frame swap to a C456 soon and chainsuck outside of the norm will not make me a happy bunny ;D

The Rookie

I guess cable ties located with the 'head' in the right place would prevent the chain going up into the gap and jamming, cheap to try....

felix.london

What size rings are these? I wonder if changing to a 32/22 would make any difference? i.e a closer ratio, less of a drop when changing, easier for the granny ring to catch ?

..never experienced chainsuck on any of the bikes so I'm probably talking bo11ock$

crimsondynamo

Yes but the picture the OP has shown has nothing to do with clearance.

True, but nor is the suck causing any problems at the point at which the photo was taken. It only causes problems when it gets wedged. If it doesn't get wedged it will eventually spring loose (if it's allowed to) as the tension on the chain increases.

This is my madey-uppey theory as to why some frames are more vulnerable than others, not to chain suck per se, but to chain suck being a problem. For example, has anyone ever complained of chainsuck on a stay-less swing-arm frame design such as Orange 5?

Chunkers1980

Jamming is not the only reason it is bad. It knackers mechs and slows down your gear changes effecting your comfidence and how you ride.

The Rookie

Erm...if it pinges off just after that photo so the rider never knew then how........

nicklouse

robst3 wrote:

Hey all,

I've got a carbon 456 with SLX 10 speed drivetrain. Experiencing what I thought was chain suck but not so sure now:

When changing down from the large to the small chain ring the chain isn't disengaging from the large ring and gets dragged up past the chainstay and jams there.

I've replaced the chain and both chain rings but it still happens. Photo below shows what is happening - if I pedal any further the chain goes up past the chainstay:

OK.
the cranks are 9 speed? rings the same?
are the rings correctly aligned? (pics like above but off the bike?)

1980jj

Hi there, I have a cube ltd race, this has suffered with a similar 'chainsuck' problem you talk about, I'm in the process off upgrading to an xt crank thinking that it may be a problem with the chainring itself, I also was considering replacing the front mech as the derailleurisbstarting to look a bit mullered, the bike also runs slx shifters, I know very little about this bike lark but what I do know is your not alone and it knocks your confidence. Could it be the shifter for the front mech? Sounds stupid I know? Just looking for ideas to pour more money to resolve this annoying problem so I can ride with confidence again. By the way, my lbs offered no advice and neither did cube customer services :-(

The Rookie

Fornt mech not relevant, nor shifters, it's a chain/chainring/rear mech issue.

1980jj

The Beginner wrote:

Fornt mech not relevant, nor shifters, it's a chain/chainring/rear mech issue.

So here's a thought then, if I replace the front crank set and chain I'm in with a pretty good chance of reducing my chain suck chances????