Paradox of a racier position
Artful_Codger
Posts: 24
I bought a Specialized E5 Allez last summer as my first road bike, and started doing 25-50 mile solo runs around Nottingham. There are so many posts regarding comfort by newer roadies no longer in their most flexible phase (I'm 45), so I thought I'd present my (unexpected) findings in the hope that it'll help someone (and hopefully attract some expert comment from experienced folk).
When I bought the bike, the LBS (chain) did a basic fit on saddle height, fore-aft, 'can you see the front wheel hub when in the drops' etc. I managed to get through my shortish rides ok, except that, on my very first Sunday ride, I ended up on the Outlaw Ironman route just as the elites were streaming out of Holme Pierrepont on the bike leg :oops: . Some of them were really friendly in the brief second or two it took them to stream past me, and one even asked me if I'd enjoyed the swim (must've been taking the p#ss).
Within a short period, I found myself browsing road bikes again, which raised eyebrows at the Treasury. I seemed to be zooming in on text bits like 'sportive', 'relaxed geometry', and 'all day riding', so something wasn't right with the fit. I changed the seat post and saddle, lowered tyre pressure, shortened the standard stem by 10mm, and got an FSA compact bar with a shorter reach to ease my position. It was different, but still didn't have that click. Bike shops I visited were all saying that I probably needed a more upright position, so I felt like I was on the right track.
After observing how I was riding a newly bought hardtail XC bike at a trail centre recently, I got the odd idea that I had been looking for comfort in the wrong direction. So, I bought a stem 10 cm longer than what came standard with the bike (20 cm longer than what I was using) and moved the 20cm of spacers that came with the bike above the stem.
The difference is remarkable. My position is lower and more stretched out, but the whole thing clicks. I feel like I can pedal more smoothly, handling is more stable, I can put out more power when climbing because I seem to engage my abs better, and I can also absorb road bumps better by lifting myself slightly off the saddle because the fore-aft balance is more neutral. Even out-of-saddle efforts are more powerful (probably because the longer-than-standard stem improves front stability).
It seems counterintuitive, but a racier position may be a route to more comfortable and effective riding. I haven't done a really long ride in this new position yet, but if I have back issues when I do, I'd rather work on strengthening my back rather than look for a more relaxed position.
The Treasury would be pleased, except that I've got browser tabs with caad10, rose Xeon and Canyon ultimate showing. So much for contentment, but the ride in the meantime is quite engaging.
When I bought the bike, the LBS (chain) did a basic fit on saddle height, fore-aft, 'can you see the front wheel hub when in the drops' etc. I managed to get through my shortish rides ok, except that, on my very first Sunday ride, I ended up on the Outlaw Ironman route just as the elites were streaming out of Holme Pierrepont on the bike leg :oops: . Some of them were really friendly in the brief second or two it took them to stream past me, and one even asked me if I'd enjoyed the swim (must've been taking the p#ss).
Within a short period, I found myself browsing road bikes again, which raised eyebrows at the Treasury. I seemed to be zooming in on text bits like 'sportive', 'relaxed geometry', and 'all day riding', so something wasn't right with the fit. I changed the seat post and saddle, lowered tyre pressure, shortened the standard stem by 10mm, and got an FSA compact bar with a shorter reach to ease my position. It was different, but still didn't have that click. Bike shops I visited were all saying that I probably needed a more upright position, so I felt like I was on the right track.
After observing how I was riding a newly bought hardtail XC bike at a trail centre recently, I got the odd idea that I had been looking for comfort in the wrong direction. So, I bought a stem 10 cm longer than what came standard with the bike (20 cm longer than what I was using) and moved the 20cm of spacers that came with the bike above the stem.
The difference is remarkable. My position is lower and more stretched out, but the whole thing clicks. I feel like I can pedal more smoothly, handling is more stable, I can put out more power when climbing because I seem to engage my abs better, and I can also absorb road bumps better by lifting myself slightly off the saddle because the fore-aft balance is more neutral. Even out-of-saddle efforts are more powerful (probably because the longer-than-standard stem improves front stability).
It seems counterintuitive, but a racier position may be a route to more comfortable and effective riding. I haven't done a really long ride in this new position yet, but if I have back issues when I do, I'd rather work on strengthening my back rather than look for a more relaxed position.
The Treasury would be pleased, except that I've got browser tabs with caad10, rose Xeon and Canyon ultimate showing. So much for contentment, but the ride in the meantime is quite engaging.
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caad 100
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Dura Ace surely 8)Yellow is the new Black.0
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Your experience of a 'racier ' position is really interesting. The idea that a more upright position on a roadbike equals a more comfortable position seems to have become common currency relatively recently, resulting in a rash of 'sportive' bikes with taller headtubes etc. But the rationale behind a 'racier' position isn't simply that it's more streamlined; by placing more of your weight forward it enables you to use your arms and shoulders and takes weight off your backside. A more upright position puts more of your weight on your bum, and might even mean more strain on your lower back as you are not able to use your arms/ shoulders as much.
I haven't ridden a road bike with more 'relaxed' geometry; it would be interesting to know if anyone else has followed your counter-intuitive route to a racier position.0 -
Congratulations on thinking about and fettling a position that you are happy with. I wish more people would try it rather than go straight for a computerised bike fit.0
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I have an E5 and also bought it from a chain with no proper bike fit as such. I have now removed all of the spacers and found my riding more efficient and much more comfortable.Madone 4.9 2014
Jeffsy 27.5 20180 -
I had an almost identical situation with my mtb. I started using it 100% on road. I put road tyres on it first. Then I spent ages trying different things as in standard form- it just didn't feel right. Too upright & difficult to get power down. So, I flipped the stem, removed all spacers to above the stem, put bar-ends on in an almost flat position, turned the bars to get them further forward & upped my seat post more. Result- bum up/hands down & much more stretched out! Feels so much better in both comfort & power delivery.B'TWIN Triban 5A
Ridgeback MX60 -
Funny you should say that. I was going to flip and slam the stem on my MTB this weekend
I am going shopping for a road bike though
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Interesting that people are reporting similar experiences on MTBs. My new MTB is a Grand Canyon AL, and my fit on it takes the seat post is out nearly to the line for max extension, and the position is more balanced fore-aft than it seems most people use on MTBs. I've done both the red and blue routes at Sherwood Pines on it now, and, if anything, I'd want a slightly longer stem on that too. I've never had the pleasure of riding a high quality full suspension MTB (like the Nerve models on the Canyon site), but I'll hazard a guess that some people decide they need one of those for general trail riding because their backside gets beaten up sitting upright on a hardtail. With a more forward-balanced fit on a hardtail, you can hover above the saddle quite a lot, and if you don't lock elbows or knees, the arms and legs do a cracking job as a suspension system.0
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It seems counterintuitive, but a racier position may be a route to more comfortable and effective riding. I haven't done a really long ride in this new position yet, but if I have back issues when I do, I'd rather work on strengthening my back rather than look for a more relaxed position.
My experience is similar. 2 prolapsed discs many years ago and what can only be described as agony for the best part of 3 years whilst they healed. Weight gain from lack of exercise-everything i tried made the pain worse-led to me buying a folding bike to loose the weight and get fitter. Upright stance so weight over seat and back problems returned.Bike stolen so after much umming and ahhhing bought a Planet x sl pro. Few twinges every now and again in my back at L4 and 5. Couldnt resolve despite looking at bike fitting sites etc but may have just been me. I did get a fitting at the bike wisperer which was an eye opener and I am now much more stretched out on the bike, weight evenly distributed and NO (fingers crossed) back problems even on 65-70 mile rides. Recently rode from Bourg st maurice via Tignes and then up the cpl d,Iseran, up hill all the way for 50km. Legs hurt, lungs hurt but astonishingly not my back. So yes, i agree a more stretched out position can be not only more efficent but nore comfortable.0
