Beginner Cadence

jecooper

Don't worry I'm not going to start asking about the perfect RPM to aim for after only a month of riding, but a friend of mine who's ridden a lot more than I have commented that I tend to ride with a very low cadence. And that if I plan on embarking on long rides then its better to get used to a higher cadence as that will help me to keep going for longer.

Since then I've been conciously switching down a gear on long steady sections and pedaling a bit faster, however i do tend to be losing 1/1.5mph as a result. Just wanted to check my friend was right in this advice and wasn't just blowing smoke up my arse?

jibberjim

Cadence is individual. Lower cadences tend to be favoured by the aerobically unfit (and it's not just on supply side from heart etc. but on the consumption side in the muscles). As you get fitter your cadence will likely ride.

I'd leave efficiency to the body for now, it probably knows better than you.

Mike39496

jecooper wrote:

Don't worry I'm not going to start asking about the perfect RPM to aim for after only a month of riding, but a friend of mine who's ridden a lot more than I have commented that I tend to ride with a very low cadence. And that if I plan on embarking on long rides then its better to get used to a higher cadence as that will help me to keep going for longer.

Since then I've been conciously switching down a gear on long steady sections and pedaling a bit faster, however i do tend to be losing 1/1.5mph as a result. Just wanted to check my friend was right in this advice and wasn't just blowing smoke up my ars*?

+1 to the above

Try spinning up the hills at a high cadence but keeping the same cadence on the flat, there isn't much point in spinning on the flat for you unless the high gear is destroying your legs. Up hills however it may save them a bit more.

smidsy

It is more effiicient in the long term to use a lower gear with a higher cadence that push a big gear round slowly as your muscles will fatigue too quickly to sustain that on a long ride.

The actual cadence is not important (and everyone responds differently) but in general yes pedalling faster rather than pushing big gears is considered better for endurance.

danowat

smidsy wrote:

It is more effiicient in the long term to use a lower gear with a higher cadence that push a big gear round slowly as your muscles will fatigue too quickly to sustain that on a long ride.

I disagree with this, my cadence decreases over time as I get tired, in long(er) TT's like 100's and 12hr, my cadence at the end is always lower, just is down to fatigue and lack of aerobic fitness over such a distance.

smidsy

danowat wrote:

smidsy wrote:

It is more effiicient in the long term to use a lower gear with a higher cadence that push a big gear round slowly as your muscles will fatigue too quickly to sustain that on a long ride.

I disagree with this, my cadence decreases over time as I get tired, in long(er) TT's like 100's and 12hr, my cadence at the end is always lower, just is down to fatigue and lack of aerobic fitness over such a distance.

That is entirely probable, but I do not see how that disagrees.

If you were to do the same distance pushing a bigger gear I bet you would fatigue even more/much quicker/maybe not even complete the distance.

danowat

smidsy wrote:

danowat wrote:

smidsy wrote:

It is more effiicient in the long term to use a lower gear with a higher cadence that push a big gear round slowly as your muscles will fatigue too quickly to sustain that on a long ride.

I disagree with this, my cadence decreases over time as I get tired, in long(er) TT's like 100's and 12hr, my cadence at the end is always lower, just is down to fatigue and lack of aerobic fitness over such a distance.

That is entirely probable, but I do not see how that disagrees.

If you were to do the same distance pushing a bigger gear I bet you would fatigue even more/much quicker/maybe not even complete the distance.

I don't think so.

smidsy

OK.

NITR8s

Lets break it down a say a begineer has a cadence of 80rpm and has a compact chainset of 50-34 teeth, with 170mm cranks.

In a 50 - 18 gear and 80rpm would be doing 17.4mph.

In a 34 - 13 at 80rpm you would be doing 16.4mph.

A difference of 1mph for the same cadence but in a different gearing, however it would be easier to pedal in the 34-13 ratio meaning not only can you sustain a higher cadence but your using less energy from your legs. So the speed will proberbly average out but you will be able to keep going for longer.

For example I can comfortable ride at 20mph in a 34-13 on a flat, which is a cadence of about 100rpm.

MichaelW

Higher cadence is only efficient if the crank length matches your leg length. Many smaller riders are using cranks that are too long; there is no way they can turn big circles at high revs and maintain efficiency.

andyeb

Personal experience - over the past year, I've deliberately raised my cadence from around 75 RPM to 100-110 RPM, bit by bit.

The end result is a smoother, more relaxed pedal motion, improved endurance, elimination of knee pain and a reduction in drive chain wear. I've even been commended for it by more experienced riders on group rides.

What is there not to like about that?

slowondefy2

High cadence looks pro. That's good enough for me.

Rulebritania

I'm wondering how I measure my cadence without having to purchase a device. I have an android phone without having to strap it to my leg then I suppose I'll have to get something.

I went out yesterday for a nice easy ride and ended up pushing myself again when I climbed Farleigh Wallop a grade 4 hill, got to the top and there was a female driver at a junction who kindly waited for me to sluggishly pass her I had a look of an asthmatic sloth carrying heavy shopping. She was chuckling at my best effort. 8)

jecooper

ok cheers for all the replies, I have quite a long inside leg (35") so hopefully the issue with the crank length won't be too much of an issue. I have had a few issues with knee pain when playing other sports which one of the reasons i turned to cycling and i'm trying to raise my aerobic fitness. so for now will continue to work on increasing my bike fitness and hopefully the cadence and the proffessionalism will come. not holding out too much hope for the second one...

rolf_f

NITR8s wrote:

Lets break it down a say a begineer has a cadence of 80rpm and has a compact chainset of 50-34 teeth, with 170mm cranks.

In a 50 - 18 gear and 80rpm would be doing 17.4mph.

In a 34 - 13 at 80rpm you would be doing 16.4mph.

A difference of 1mph for the same cadence but in a different gearing, however it would be easier to pedal in the 34-13 ratio meaning not only can you sustain a higher cadence but your using less energy from your legs. So the speed will proberbly average out but you will be able to keep going for longer.

For example I can comfortable ride at 20mph in a 34-13 on a flat, which is a cadence of about 100rpm.

I think you are making things unneccessarily complicated here! One thing - the crank length is not directly relevant to the maths - obviously it is relevant to the form of the rider but that is another issue; the relationship between cadence and distance covered is not affected by crank length. Secondly, your 17.4-16.4 calcs are unneccessary - that's just gears. The key fact is that grinding gears is less efficient - that is down to how our bodies work. Not the gearing per se. I think your point about the gearing would be clearer like this:

You are in 50-18 gear doing 80 rpm at 17.4 mph. It would be easier for you to sustain 17.4 mph if you shifted to, say, 50-20 and increased your cadence accordingly (I can't be bothered to do the calculation - it's been a long day!). (I often find that if I change to a lower gear and exert the same effort, my speed actually increases).

FWIW, I've been training myself to increase my cadence. What a few months ago would have felt really funny, now feels normal. I commonly pedal at over 100 and average about 91-92 on a good day. I think if you are averaging in the 70s, then the argument 'go with what feels right' is probably bad advice. There's no need to get into bad habits at any stage.

Incidentally, what really works for me is having both cadence and average cadence displayed on my main computer screen. Just having instantaneous cadence on really doesn't work.

Rulebritania wrote:

I'm wondering how I measure my cadence without having to purchase a device. I have an android phone without having to strap it to my leg then I suppose I'll have to get something.

You could get a cheap standard computer (eg probably Aldi this Thursday) and fiddle with the settings so that it records cadence. It's a little confusing but quite straightforward providing there is no restriction on wheel size inputs.

StillGoing

Work your cadence out in your head; just count the strokes you make for six seconds and times it by ten.

Phil_D

philthy3 wrote:

Work your cadence out in your head; just count the strokes you make for six seconds and times it by ten.

I've tried that but it's really hard to count to six at the same time as counting my feet going round

Mikey23

as a couple of posters have mentioned it, pushing on at too high a gear is very stressful for the knees. i found that i had constant knee pain when i first started riding and my background was road running. now i work at a higher cadence this has been all but eliminated

keef66

As per the dark-room scene in Gregory's girl, I count one elephant, two elephants, three elephants etc. This equates to 60 rpm so I have a vague idea how fast I'm pedalling relative to this.

rolf_f

philthy3 wrote:

Work your cadence out in your head; just count the strokes you make for six seconds and times it by ten.

I used to do that - didn't help really. Unless you do it all the time your cadence just drifts down again. It's good for telling you how poor your cadence is but not for actually increasing it IME.

cougie

Look at any charity ride where its largely Joe Public cycling - cadences are always low - 60 revs or so.
Look at any pro race - cadences are always 80+.

Most of us start off low revs and end up spinning faster thru our development.

Its easy enough to do the cadence check - then you look at your computer - if you havent changed gear and your speed is about the same - then your cadence wont have varied much either. It takes a bit of getting used to - but it soon becomes second nature.

rolf_f

cougie wrote:

Its easy enough to do the cadence check - then you look at your computer - if you havent changed gear and your speed is about the same - then your cadence wont have varied much either.

That depends on where you are. Around where I live, if you haven't changed gear and your speed is about the same then you last checked your cadence within the last 30 seconds

andyeb

Could you borrow a bike computer from a friend with cadence for a few weeks? The wireless ones are relatively straight forward to swap between bikes.

It only takes about a week to get a feel for what 90-100 RPM feels like. After that you can largely go on feel - I tend to only use the cadence feature on my computer to verify what I'm feeling - 95% of the time it doesn't surprise me with the read out.

jonomc4

I find that although my cadence goes into the 100's often my average is always around the mid 80's - but anyway better than a year ago when I first got a cadence monitor and it was around 65 average!

Re the speed - when you switch to a higher cadence you will go slower at the start but you will quickly find you average speed actually increases to much higher than before and you will be shocked at how little effort it takes - it is just a case of training you mind and body to work differently - for me this was impossible without a cadence counter on the bike.