Motorists incessant disregard for cyclists

BowtomePhil

hulla the hulla wrote:

I had some bloke pull out on me on the way home last night - he looked straight at me and still pulled out even though I was hacking along - had to stick the bike on it's nose and only just stopped in time. He drove off the other way and I gave him the international sign language for self loving - next thing I know he's turned around and chased me down, pulled along side, screaming obscenities (bear in mind he had his wife / partner and 2 kids in the car!) and tried to run me off the road. I slapped his front wing ( he was that close) and he then accelerated up the road, handbraked into a driveway, got out the car and stood IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD waiting for me !? WTF!?!? I managed to swerve around him but not enough and he landed a punch right in the middle of my back. Lucky really as if he'd have kicked or pushed me over or grabbed an arm I'd have been on the deck.
I was soooooo angry but stopping was suicide - he was clearly a nutter and him stopping told me all I needed to know - get the hell out of dodge !

Staggering ?!

PS - has anyone actually tried to fight someone whilst wearing SPD-SLs ? I can't see them being too stable.
PPS - I'm 41, haven't had a fight since school and that last comment was clearly a joke

I hope you get his number plate and reported him to the police, I am sure he will do it again to somebody else

veronese68

estampida wrote:

that white line at a junction, you have to stop before it

that line down the side of the road, you have to drive inside it

that amber light, is a request to stop, not accelerate.......

the roads are lawless.......

Not quite.
If the line at a junction is a Give Way line you don't have to stop before it. If you can see the the road you are joining is clear you can go. You should, of course, make sure it is safe to do so and stop if necessary.
The line down the middle of the road you can cross, unless it is a solid line on your side.

Crouching Peeky

I've been communting into London from Essex for 2 weeks now. One of my concerns before I started was being so vunerable on very busy roads. I have to say that it's not been an issue really. There have been one or two incidents where I've thought the motorist to be either inconsiderate or just plan stupid. Exception rather than the rule though.

I did see something quite staggering on Tuesday though, I was barreling along Whitechapel Road behind two other cyclists as we're about to pass a side turning a car just turns into the turning with no warning. Even now, I have no idea how the guy at the front missed the car. To be fair to the guy at the front, he just cycled on as if nothing had happened. I guess in a way, no one was hurt, no harm done. Personally I doubt I would have been so restrained. It may not be the right response, but I can see why so many cyclists do see red. All it would have needed was the cyclist to have been two foot further down the road than he was and he would have been smacked straight off at not an inconsiderable speed with broken bones almost a certainty (at least he would have been practically oppostie London hospital!).

From what I have seen and what I am learning as I cycle is that there are plenty of good, considerate and safe motorists, as there are cyclists. The flip side is there is the occasional self love enthusiast on both sides. When a cyclist is reckless, often the person most at risk is themself. When a motorist is reckless, it's the cyclist at risk and I think that is the biggest thing. I just don't think there is the appreciation by these kind of motorists of how vunerable cyclists are. As has been mentioned, 10kg of aluminium and carbon plus 80kg of squidgy human will not win any fights with 1+ tonne metal box.

As for London bus drivers, they need a thread to themselves....haha

StillGoing

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

BowtomePhil wrote:

SheffSimon wrote:

I was knocked off last Friday on my way to work, someone pulled out in front of me and stopped across the bus lane I was travelling in, and way too close for me to stop....resulting in my head cut open, separated ac joint in my shoulder, various cuts and bruises, ambulance ride to hospital, police etc.

First time in over 25 years of commuting, training, racing that I have been knocked off by anything other than another bike..

The driver admitted to the police in his statement that he just hadnt seen me...police are taking no further action, which at the time they told me, at the hospital, I just accepted cos I had other concerns, but now I am struggling to understand. Surely its driving without due care and attention, if thats the right phrasing, cos if he had been paying due care and attention he would have seen me. Is it possible to pursue that with police, to push them to take further action?

Anyway, cant wait to get back on the bike tomorrow, not put me off in the slightest, although the missus is insisting I wear a helmet from now on. Fair enough.

Many factors in them pursuing it, maybe there were no witnesses?

Anyway you can still claim of his insurance for loads of things, due to injuries, at least £3000 for them. And then bike costs etc.

Just because he didn't see you, it doesn't follow that he was driving without due care and attention. It could be one of those things, unfortunately. With the number of objects on our roads, some collisions will happen.
That said, you could push it. Mrs BBGeek was knocked off her bike a few years ago, and the police's initial reaction was not to pursue it. She got righteously angry with the traffic sergeant and demanded they have another look at the case. In the end the driver accepted a driving course rather than a court appearance. It depends whether you think a day in court will make you feel better.

Of course it's due care and attention or as it's now called careless and inconsiderate. Did he/she see you? Yes, then why did they pull out causing the collision and fulfilling the inconsiderate. If no, then they didn't pay attention to other road users a d were therefore careless. If the driver's standard falls below the standard of a Careful and competent driver. The standard is objective and not subjective so it is a standard of everybody and not the actual driver. Take it up with the police and ask why they aren't charging. It may be because your injuries were minor and the insurance company will sufficiently compensate you and there is little to be gained by incurring officer and court time, though I imagine it'd be a guilty plea anyway.

Mikey23

Erm... No incidents to report here. What does concern me is that while some of you guys are winding up inconsiderate motorists with your self righteous aggressive posturing, I might be the next cyclist they meet ...

neeb

philthy3 wrote:

Negativelycra wrote:

IMO, if the cyclist was 100% innocent, there wouldn't be a frustrated kick / leave, you'd get the reg and go from there.
I'm an avid driver and recent cyclist. The behaviour of some cyclists / some drivers astounds me. If any induvidual thinks "us and them", horror often ensues.
Ride like a motorist, drive like a cyclist - that way you'll only ever come to grief with the 0.5% of the population that are just too ignorant to coexist with others.

Absolutely. Just as there are dickhead drivers, there are dickhead cyclists. Even if as a cyclist you are totally innocent of any transgression during an accident or altercation with a motor vehicle, there is no excuse for causing damage to the vehicle. Get the details of the car and driver, any witnesses and report it.

I can see where you are both coming from, but in this case I disagree that there isn't an excuse. The guy had just been hit by a car and rolled over the bonnet - assuming it wasn't his fault (admittedly we don't know that), he had effectively just been seriously assaulted by someone in a big metal box. Doubtless he was buzzing with adrenaline and possibly in a state of shock - if the incident was due to aggressive or very careless driving by the motorist you can hardly blame him for lashing out at the car a few seconds afterwards. Same as if you randomly punch a stranger you can hardly blame them for hitting back. It might not be a good idea in retrospect, but that's how most people are programmed to behave. Similarly, kicking the car and then leaving in that situation isn't incompatible with him being innocent - people do things like that in "fight or flight" situations. It would be completely different if he hadn't actually been hit of course.

neeb

Some background:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response

migikesagiri

I used to ride to college and was hit while on the way back. Changed lanes on a low traffic road to make a left (this is in the US, by the way) and was hit from behind by a speeding car. I was fairly alright, mainly just road rash. Other than my rear wheel, which was trashed, my bike was mostly fine as well. I recieved a ticket, which I believe was racialy motivated. It was later dismissed in court.

feelgoodlost

I've been commuting for the past 3-4 months and only recently started to ditch the cycle paths and persevere with the busier roads. I can't get on with trying to negotiate my way around pedestrians and curbs. It just got to the point where it was taking me far longer to get to work than it really should.

This morning I was cycling along a pretty busy stretch of road. I always find it a bit intimidating but I get on with it and everything is usually OK. I was cycling along in the bus lane (which is fine as far as I'm aware, there's nothing to say you can't on this particular road) and as I approached a red light a bus driver who's been behind me pulls up and gives me very little space between his wing mirror and the curb, opens his doors and starts shouting his mouth off, telling me I should be on the cycle path, I reply by saying 'No I shouldn't...' Lights turn green, he then proceeds to beep his horn at me, catch up with me, open his doors again and continue to shout abuse. I found it pretty hard to contain my anger by this point. I'm not proud of what I say back but it's in the heat of the moment. It was a private coach firm and I'd forgot the name on the side of the bus by the time I'd got to work. Safe to say if it had been a public bus company, I would of called in at their depot on my way home and made a formal complaint.

In my eyes I'd done nothing wrong and it's completely unacceptable that cyclists should have to feel intimidated by people like him. It's second time it's happened with a private coach company on the same stretch of road. I've got to force myself to just blow a kiss and ignore the abuse next time something like this happens.

Is it just me or can you tell when drivers are in a foul and inpatient mood? Like at certain times of the day? I'm fairly certain I'm becoming more aware of it.

Sprool

getting in a lot of miles recently around the towns in my area, I was really struck by the courtesy extended to me by the car, lorry and van drivers. The whole area is strewn with roadworks, narrow lanes and excavations. Motorists have slowed and waited patiently for me to negotiate the narrow sections before attempting to pass. They have hung back till oncoming traffic has cleared, and left space and safety for me. Now I have not been cycling in rush hour and I do accept that we are very vulnerable when it comes to an altercation with a big steel box. I'm just happy to report it's not all bad up north.

Ron Stuart

Sprool wrote:

getting in a lot of miles recently around the towns in my area, I was really struck by the courtesy extended to me by the car, lorry and van drivers. The whole area is strewn with roadworks, narrow lanes and excavations. Motorists have slowed and waited patiently for me to negotiate the narrow sections before attempting to pass. They have hung back till oncoming traffic has cleared, and left space and safety for me. Now I have not been cycling in rush hour and I do accept that we are very vulnerable when it comes to an altercation with a big steel box. I'm just happy to report it's not all bad up north.

You obviously live in France :roll:

MartinGT

Cycling last night, down a back road. Driver behind me, I am doing about 35-40km/h and I could tell by his engine he was getting impatient, but the road being windy, he didnt have a great opportunity to get passed. After about 3 mins he is getting twitchy and getting closer. As we approach where the road widens I knew he was going to go for it and pass me. Thats fine. But last night, parked cars on my left and I could see an oncoming car, so I pulled out to stop the guy flying passed and squishing me into the parked car.

Did this help? No, he forced his way passed and caused the oncoming car to mount the pavement!

slowondefy2

When traffic is coming up behind me on a singletrack road I'll cycle in the middle of the road to show there's no safe way to pass, but once they've matched speeds with me I'll just pull in and let them by. No point making them sit behind you for ages and it only takes a few seconds to pull in.

It's important to wait until they've matched speeds before pulling in, otherwise it encourages a close high speed pass.

feelgoodlost wrote:

as I approached a red light a bus driver who's been behind me pulls up and gives me very little space between his wing mirror and the curb

Of course you didn't do anything wrong, but if you'd been more assertive and stayed in the middle of the lane you'd have prevented the inappropriate pass. No harm in waiting at the lights in the centre of the lane, whereas if you move to the left-most part of the lane, you're essentially inviting the bus to come alongside. Apologies if I've misinterpreted what you've said.

DevonClimber

My philosophy out on my bike is just be nice. I have learnt this after spoiling many a ride with that wound up feeling you get after a near miss, which lets be honest happens most rides, but should anyone hit me or really try to endanger my life then my attitude in that situation will change.
However, every time I hit the road now I go out with the knowledge that I will definately have a couple of close ones as some drivers are unaware of how intimidating it is to have all the metal get so close to you at speed, but I let it go, smile at people, follow the rules of the road, and importantly pull over when I can and give a friendly wave to say thanks for waiting even for mere seconds, usually I get a friendly toot or wave in return adding to the general bonhomie.
It may be a bit bleeding heart or soft for some, but for me adjusting your attitude can make all the difference.
ooooommmmm

Ron Stuart

DevonClimber wrote:

My philosophy out on my bike is just be nice. I have learnt this after spoiling many a ride with that wound up feeling you get after a near miss, which lets be honest happens most rides, but should anyone hit me or really try to endanger my life then my attitude in that situation will change.
However, every time I hit the road now I go out with the knowledge that I will definitely have a couple of close ones as some drivers are unaware of how intimidating it is to have all the metal get so close to you at speed, but I let it go, smile at people, follow the rules of the road, and importantly pull over when I can and give a friendly wave to say thanks for waiting even for mere seconds, usually I get a friendly toot or wave in return adding to the general bonhomie.
It may be a bit bleeding heart or soft for some, but for me adjusting your attitude can make all the difference.
ooooommmmm

It's a bit difficult to be nice when you are lying on a verge half concussed after being hit from behind on an A road by some hit and run driver as I have :roll: Oh! and I did smile at the ladies operating the ambulance that took me to hospital

negativelycra

MartinGT wrote:

Cycling last night, down a back road. Driver behind me, I am doing about 35-40km/h and I could tell by his engine he was getting impatient, but the road being windy, he didnt have a great opportunity to get passed. After about 3 mins he is getting twitchy and getting closer. As we approach where the road widens I knew he was going to go for it and pass me. Thats fine. But last night, parked cars on my left and I could see an oncoming car, so I pulled out to stop the guy flying passed and squishing me into the parked car.

Did this help? No, he forced his way passed and caused the oncoming car to mount the pavement!

Right, contoversy time...
Imo, you put yourself in danger big time here. On the road, you have to compensate for the failures in others. (touch wood), i've an awful lot of miles under my belt without incident driving, a lot of which is due to compensating for other people being shitehawks.

The big mind change is sperating being right with being safe. In the story above, you've established the bloke following is an arse. You even acknowlege the bloke is an arse,but hell - you have every right to ride, so continue. The thing is, although you have that right, and he has no right to pressure you, you know he will. You then have a choice - continue, as it is your right to do, and if he hits you you're at fault. The other option is to yield, slow and just get rid of the arsehole, and continue enjoying the ride.

I know it goes against the scruples, but i would rather be inconvenienced and safe, than right and bleeding. It can be frustrating, but you get the same in a car when plebs tailgate / noob in motorway traffic / pull out in front of you. The general standard of roadcraft in the uk is about 2% above bilge, it's a pity but best just accept it

DevonClimber

Ron Stuart wrote:

DevonClimber wrote:

My philosophy out on my bike is just be nice. I have learnt this after spoiling many a ride with that wound up feeling you get after a near miss, which lets be honest happens most rides, but should anyone hit me or really try to endanger my life then my attitude in that situation will change.
However, every time I hit the road now I go out with the knowledge that I will definitely have a couple of close ones as some drivers are unaware of how intimidating it is to have all the metal get so close to you at speed, but I let it go, smile at people, follow the rules of the road, and importantly pull over when I can and give a friendly wave to say thanks for waiting even for mere seconds, usually I get a friendly toot or wave in return adding to the general bonhomie.
It may be a bit bleeding heart or soft for some, but for me adjusting your attitude can make all the difference.
ooooommmmm

It's a bit difficult to be nice when you are lying on a verge half concussed after being hit from behind on an A road by some hit and run driver as I have :roll: Oh! and I did smile at the ladies operating the ambulance that took me to hospital

You see, even a brush with death cheered you up. Get your point though, and hope you are ok now.

Mikey23

@dc... Every time you go out you know you are going to have a couple of close ones? I would be too scared to go out of my front door... We live in a similar part of the country and I reckon to get an incident worth thinking about once in a blue moon, and I am not a brilliant cyclist by any means. Perhaps you need to look at your own bike skills?

DevonClimber

Mikey23 wrote:

@dc... Every time you go out you know you are going to have a couple of close ones? I would be too scared to go out of my front door... We live in a similar part of the country and I reckon to get an incident worth thinking about once in a blue moon, and I am not a brilliant cyclist by any means. Perhaps you need to look at your own bike skills?

No, I may not have explained myself well. What I meant was, when we go out on a road ride there are situations that are completely out of our control ie quietish country road leading up onto the moors, uphill, slow and blind corners, driver doesn't know you are round that bend and you have no where to pull in etc, car comes past to close, happens all the time busy or quiet roads, we all have different tolorences for what is to close for comfort but I am sure it happens to all of us on a regular basis. Real dangerous situations I agree are fortunately once in a blue moon stuff.
My bike handling is fine I think after 25 yrs of incident free cycling, but heh we are always learning.

Gabbo

Should motorists who are guilty of reckless driving be named and shamed by the public by being aired on youtube?

As I agree with the majority on here that Gaz is a bad representation of how us cyclists confront certain situations, he has at least brought some awareness to those who watched the documentary just the other day. Yes, Gaz came across as a smug, arrogant twat but then again why should all the emphasis be on how he confronted the situations? Hell, he never physically threatened anyone.

Today I had three near misses. The first one was a lady driver who decided to pull out right in front of me with very little indication. She didn't indicate, nor did she look in my direction. This to me is a recipe for disaster for me (physically), and for her when she gets prosecuted. Now, if it wasn't for my cat-like reflexes I probably would have had a trip to A&E minus my £1500 bike. So, how did I react? Quite badly, yes. Am I ashamed of it? Kind of, but I was very angry at the time. I may have called her a tw@t and shouted aggressively, but does that even come close to her disregard for other road users?

2nd near miss today wasn't so much a near miss but more of a personal lecture I gave to one road user. As she proceeded to pull out in front of me at a distance of approximately 20m away (if that), she soon slammed on her brakes realising that A) she doesn't have right away and she was on her darn phone. On her phone!! This caused her concentration to wander (quite clearly) as she nearly pulled out on me, potentially causing a serious accident. Should I be to blame? Maybe, if you expect me to cycle half the speed limit; however, motor bikes travel at 40mph, sometimes 50mph on a main road. It's wrong, I know, but travelling at 23mph isn't fast regardless the size of the vehicle. If I'm travelling slightly under 10mps, then covering 20m will take a tad over 2 seconds. Even slamming on my brakes this would be impossible. Again, I could cycle at 15mph but then again the speed limit was 30mph on a relatively clear road with no traffic. Why should I be at peril because some selfish motorist is on their mobile phone? It's selfish, potentially dangerous, and doesn't even compare to how I confronted the situation. Did I swear at her? No, but I raised my concern about the crime she had just committed. Her reaction? She told me to f**k off, of course, and soon sped off at probably 50mph if I was to take a wild guess at the speed she was going.

3rd near miss was by far the worst of the three. Male driver in a 4x4, like the first lady, pulling out straight in front of me. Fortunately I was cycling at a ridiculously slow speed (maybe 14mph) and this is what ultimately prevented me from colliding with that beast of a vehicle. His missus looked somewhat terrified as she saw me slamming on my brakes, but again there was no indication. Like the first near miss, he wasn't pulling out of a side road onto a main road, he was on a main road turning into a side road therefore cutting across my lane. You can anticipate the former, but the latter is less predictable.

How or when will motorists learn to show some regard towards not just cyclists, but other road users? Maybe when they've finally killed someone...

Are us cyclists at war with motorists? I don't believe so personally, but it's us who pays the price whenever an accident occurs.

jgsi

It must be me, because I think you are part of the problem and not the solution... oh well wtf do I know... I'll leave you in peace with your confrontations.

de_sisti

Gabbo wrote:

Fortunately I was cycling at a ridiculously slow speed (maybe 14mph)

Bit of willy waving there Gabbo. 14 mph isn't a riduclously slow speed. If it is for you, why didn't you specifically say so.

unixnerd

I'm just happy to report it's not all bad up north.

I must second that. In Aberdeen I find most drivers to be more scared of me than I am of them. I tend to get given enough room and I've never had an altercation of any significance. Only twice in the past year did I have any trouble, both times trying to turn right into my hotel and being denied the chance by drivers squeezing past me. I now go from secondary to primary much earlier on that bit of road and it's solved the problem.

Critch

SheffSimon wrote:

I was knocked off last Friday on my way to work, someone pulled out in front of me and stopped across the bus lane I was travelling in, and way too close for me to stop....resulting in my head cut open, separated ac joint in my shoulder, various cuts and bruises, ambulance ride to hospital, police etc.

First time in over 25 years of commuting, training, racing that I have been knocked off by anything other than another bike...

....Is it possible to pursue that with police, to push them to take further action?

Re-contact the police. There is no such thing as an accident when it comes to road traffic collisions. The are lawful defences such as automatism but its always driver error. Its the margin of error that is one of the factors when it comes to the Police prosecuting. Other factors would include victim wishes, public interest, available evidence... its goes on but is beyond the scope of my reply in this thread (I could type for an hour easily).

Seems like a case of careless driving to me but its without knowing the full facts. You can tell them you were not happy with the initial decision and felt "brow beaten" into accepting the outcome and now with a less painful and clearer head you are unhappy about NFA (no further action). It might not do you any good though. The standard of driving has to fall below the standard expected of a reasonable, prudent and competent driver in all the circumstances of the case. If it doesn't = no offence. Your circumstances tend to fit that by the driver. Good luck.