Wheelsmith Gigantex or Dura Ace C50?

simonscan
simonscan Posts: 35
edited November 2012 in Road buying advice
Thinking about buying some 50mm wheels and seen many people really rate "Wheelsmith", I have had a look on their website at the Gigantex 50mm clinchers with either Novatec Superlite hubs or Extralite SX/SLX hubs build.

For the same money I could buy a pair of DA C50, which would be the better option?
And which would be a better all round wheel?

Comments

  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    As all round wheel none of the above. The gigantex use J spokes, hence they can be fixed if a problem occurred, with the DA you are at the mercy of the return/replace game and outside warranty any fix will cost you a fortune. Dura ace hubs are way superior than Novatec or Extralite. If you choose Gigantex, go for the Novatec option, cheaper and good quality... Extra lite is not worth the extra.
    left the forum March 2023
  • simonscan
    simonscan Posts: 35
    Would it be possible to build the Gigantex 50mm rims onto Dura Ace hubs?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    The short answer is no, as Dura Ace spare hubs only come as 32 holes.
    Besides, these carbon rims are not designed to last 20,000 miles, so you only need a decent set of hubs, rather than one for life... Novatec are perfect for the job... if you had a hubset for life, you could then replace the rims once they're gone, but in a few years time this 20/24 holes fashion might be a thing of the past and so might be deep carbon rims...
    Not sure it's worth spending too much money on carbon wheels... the Gigantex are probably a good idea, but keep the budget as low as you can, they're a fashion item, in a year or two you'll want an upgrade, they're not a keeper

    If you want a good set of wheels, I would scrap the carbon idea all together
    left the forum March 2023
  • Evil Laugh
    Evil Laugh Posts: 1,412
    Actually both dura ace hubs and the rims come in 24 and 28 hole guise.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    Evil Laugh wrote:
    Actually both dura ace hubs and the rims come in 24 and 28 hole guise.

    If you can buy 24 holes dura ace hubs for J spokes, send me a link
    left the forum March 2023
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... tedKingdom

    http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... Googlebase
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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    NapoleonD wrote:
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=28443&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_name=UnitedKingdom

    http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... Googlebase

    That is welcome news... Up to a couple of months ago only 32 and 36 were available...
    left the forum March 2023
  • benjboy
    benjboy Posts: 258
    Ring Derek at wheel smith for the best advive...
    Keep the chain tight all the way.
  • benjboy
    benjboy Posts: 258
    ADVICE !!!!
    Keep the chain tight all the way.
  • simonscan
    simonscan Posts: 35
    Been in contact with Derek at Wheelsmith, unfortunately - the Dura Ace hubs only go down to 24h fronts now and 28h rears and the rims are 20/24 pairs.

    He mentioned the nearest in design to DA hubs would be Royce - they are very good quality UK manufactured hubs. We have our own hubs now too which come in silver and also use cartridge bearings.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    simonscan wrote:
    Been in contact with Derek at Wheelsmith, unfortunately - the Dura Ace hubs only go down to 24h fronts now and 28h rears and the rims are 20/24 pairs.

    He mentioned the nearest in design to DA hubs would be Royce - they are very good quality UK manufactured hubs. We have our own hubs now too which come in silver and also use cartridge bearings.

    I know Strada use Bitex hubs as their own brand... the rear are OK, the front are a hit and a miss... not sure what Derek uses, but surely is some Taiwan cheap product. I'd say Novatec 291/482 for the price or Royce for the quality... pairing Royce to Carbon rims is a bit of a waste, as once you get over the carbon fever, you are left with 20/24 drillings which are not of much use outside the deep section rim scenario. Up to you... of course Royce are amazing hubs and assuming unlimited funds, they are the ones to buy

    EDIT: just had a look at Wheelsmith's own hubs... I might be wrong, but these are Bitex too, model RAR12/B713 SB
    left the forum March 2023
  • huuregeil
    huuregeil Posts: 780
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    pairing Royce to Carbon rims is a bit of a waste, as once you get over the carbon fever, you are left with 20/24 drillings which are not of much use outside the deep section rim scenario.

    Not true if you're racing, which is the only reason to buy a 50mm wheelset. If you're racing, the last thing you want is your fast wheelset to be out of action for a couple of weeks during the season - it makes sense here to throw some cash at a decent pair of hubs, and also go for a regular spoked wheel, so that: a) you've got a good expectation of getting a full season out of them without mechanical issues; b) you can rebuild/replace a spoke in a hurry in case of a prang. DT Swiss 240 make a lot of sense here, being relatively light and robust/easy to service; PMP and tune are heavier/lighter options respectively. You should be able to build a very decent carbon wheelset relatively cheaply: 200-300 for hubs (less if you go far eastern!); 200 rims; 100 aero spokes; plus build costs. Only applies if you're racing, however!
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    huuregeil wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    pairing Royce to Carbon rims is a bit of a waste, as once you get over the carbon fever, you are left with 20/24 drillings which are not of much use outside the deep section rim scenario.

    Not true if you're racing, which is the only reason to buy a 50mm wheelset. If you're racing, the last thing you want is your fast wheelset to be out of action for a couple of weeks during the season - it makes sense here to throw some cash at a decent pair of hubs, and also go for a regular spoked wheel, so that: a) you've got a good expectation of getting a full season out of them without mechanical issues; b) you can rebuild/replace a spoke in a hurry in case of a prang. DT Swiss 240 make a lot of sense here, being relatively light and robust/easy to service; PMP and tune are heavier/lighter options respectively. You should be able to build a very decent carbon wheelset relatively cheaply: 200-300 for hubs (less if you go far eastern!); 200 rims; 100 aero spokes; plus build costs. Only applies if you're racing, however!

    Of course if I say black, you have to say white... :lol:
    Nobody here has mentioned racing. Most people buy those wheels as they appear to be the thing to have, it's call peer pressure, of course we are all immune and we all fall for it. In a couple of years the thing to have will be something else or simply a 16/20 combo instead of 20/24, meaning your 300 pounds investment in Royce hubs of the wrong drill count becomes a bit pointless as no Taiwanese manufacture will make 20/24 drillings anymore (bear in mind they only do one thing to reduce costs).
    As far as I remember (and I remember a lot) 28 and 32 spokes wheel sets have been around... certainly since the 1960s, at least for top end/racing wheels... and that's where I would put my "hub pot"
    left the forum March 2023
  • huuregeil
    huuregeil Posts: 780
    No, we just disagree on some things, and I race so have a different perspective on equipment choices! Where I agree is that for general use, you shouldn't be using these things - as I said, the only reason to consider 50mm carbons is to race, hence where my comments about hubs apply.
  • Evil Laugh
    Evil Laugh Posts: 1,412
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=28443&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_name=UnitedKingdom

    http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... Googlebase

    That is welcome news... Up to a couple of months ago only 32 and 36 were available...

    Again, not entirely true, I had a set of 24/28s sat around last year I was going to build with hed belgium rims but couldn't get hold of the rims for love nor money so ended up selling the hubs.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    Evil Laugh wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=28443&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_name=UnitedKingdom

    http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... Googlebase

    That is welcome news... Up to a couple of months ago only 32 and 36 were available...

    Again, not entirely true, I had a set of 24/28s sat around last year I was going to build with hed belgium rims but couldn't get hold of the rims for love nor money so ended up selling the hubs.

    You could have used A23, same thing and easily available as 24/28.... Don't know how you got the hubs, but I certainly could not find them
    left the forum March 2023
  • Evil Laugh
    Evil Laugh Posts: 1,412
    I bought them online from somewhere or other.

    I have a set of a23 wheels on ambrosio/novatecs. They are ok but not my favourites. The braking surface is far inferior to something like a well machined dura ace rim. I thought the Hed would be similar but better quality.
  • Evil Laugh
    Evil Laugh Posts: 1,412
    On topic...check out the c35 wheels. Great for all conditions, nicest riding wheels I've used. Good at everything, feel like really smooth low profile wheels and just steamroll over our crappy roads. Shimano really have that super smooth ride quality nailed on their wheels. Can't wait to try the new super light 9000 versions.

    I'm putting pave tubs on mine to use all year round as they make the bike feel like a dream. I've ridden £4k lightweights and I honestly prefer the shimanos.

    You can get good deals on them second hand, think I got mine for around 6 or 7 with rubber. Pretty good in the wet for carbon wheels but obviously I don't take them out in the rain knowingly.

    My experience is that while handbuilts sound like a sensible option they are the only wheels I ever get problems with be it cracked rims, spokes pulling through eyelets, wheels going out of true, spokes popping, it's always been on handbuilts for me so I'll stick to my da wheels and my Ksyrium slrs knowing I've got bases covered as the mavics are superb in the wet.
  • simonscan
    simonscan Posts: 35
    OK guys been in contact with Derek from Wheelsmith and he said that he can build me a pair of Gigantex 50mm carbon clinchers on Dura Ace 7900 hubs 24/28h.
    My question is:- Do I go for the Gigantex with DA hubs or go for the Dura Ace C50?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    Don't mean to put you off, but you should also read PilotPete experience with Gigantex rims before taking a decision

    viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=12880277

    Once again, my feeling is that composite rims outside a seriously competitive racing environment are completely pointless... and that includes looping at Hillingdon circuit in cat. 3-4
    left the forum March 2023
  • simonscan
    simonscan Posts: 35
    Thanks for your advice regarding "Wheelsmith Gigantex or Dura Ace C50".
    After reading PilotPete's experience with Gigantex rims, I've decided to go with the Dura Ace C50, I live in Yorkshire and it's well know for hills and I want a wheel that has a good braking surface when going down hills, something that's not going to fail me.
    Does anyone know what the difference is between Dura Ace 7900 wheels & the new Dura Ace 9000 wheels?
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    About 1100
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    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    simonscan wrote:
    Thanks for your advice regarding "Wheelsmith Gigantex or Dura Ace C50".
    After reading PilotPete's experience with Gigantex rims, I've decided to go with the Dura Ace C50, I live in Yorkshire and it's well know for hills and I want a wheel that has a good braking surface when going down hills, something that's not going to fail me.
    Does anyone know what the difference is between Dura Ace 7900 wheels & the new Dura Ace 9000 wheels?

    If you live in a hilly area, why not scrapping the deep section idea altogether? You will struggle in crosswinds and the wheels will not help you going up and will be twitchy going down if it's windy. Yes, the logos are big, but they don't work like antlers, they won't scare anybody off your path or impress anybody out there, especially up north! There is plenty of wheels more suited to your area... if you like the Dura Ace idea, why not going for the shallow section ones? C24 or whatever they are called... A lot cheaper as well
    left the forum March 2023
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    Evil Laugh wrote:
    My experience is that while handbuilts sound like a sensible option they are the only wheels I ever get problems with be it cracked rims, spokes pulling through eyelets, wheels going out of true, spokes popping, it's always been on handbuilts for me so I'll stick to my da wheels and my Ksyrium slrs knowing I've got bases covered as the mavics are superb in the wet.

    Seems to me like your problem is the person who built those wheels. Well made hand builts will be (a) made with the components that suit both you and the type of riding, and (b) well put together. You might have the best assembled wheels, but if they're too light & not strong enough of course they'll break.

    Reading this thread, its seems the OP was going to go with the Gigantex "clinchers" and then talks about hill climbing. This makes no sense. If you're going for 50mm deep carbon rims then go the whole hog and go tubluar. If you're into hill climbing, then these wheels are not the right ones. And if you're planning on doing lots of miles, these are the wrong rims.

    Much better to go with decent hubs of your choice (Shimano/Campag i.e. standard flange width), rims like Mavic Open Pro or Ambrosio Excellights, and 28 or 32 "normal" spokes depending on your weight. Reliable, bullet proof, fairly light and easily maintained. A lot cheaper too!
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
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  • leloby
    leloby Posts: 50
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Don't mean to put you off, but you should also read PilotPete experience with Gigantex rims before taking a decision

    viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=12880277

    Once again, my feeling is that composite rims outside a seriously competitive racing environment are completely pointless... and that includes looping at Hillingdon circuit in cat. 3-4

    Please revisit this post to read our reply. viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=12880277

    Or here to see PilotPete's original post: viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12825710&p=17426303&hilit=wheelsmith+gigantex+algarve#p17426303
    www.wheelsmith.co.uk
  • on-yer-bike
    on-yer-bike Posts: 2,974
    Do carbon braking surfaces last less time than aluminium?
    Pegoretti
    Colnago
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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    on-yer-bike wrote:
    Do carbon braking surfaces last less time than aluminium?

    If you treat them well, they might even last longer than an alloy rim you don't treat well... Given the cost of carbon clincher rims, you better treat them well... :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • on-yer-bike
    on-yer-bike Posts: 2,974
    The only way to treat them well is to never use your brakes! No, I have some Bora Ones and now Ive stopped racing (I hardly started) I almost feel embarrassed to use them. Its like driving a Mitsubishi Evo, everyone probably thinks you're a w**ker. I need to replace my Neutrons soon so I'll be going Record/Ambrosio Excellight hand built.
    Pegoretti
    Colnago
    Cervelo
    Campagnolo

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