Lights - Too Much Power?

Pufftmw

I've been caught out a few times recently as I've not changed my batteries on my lights as haven't really needed them over the summer. Obviously all this is going to change and whilst I'm quite happy plugging along with a cheapy Cateye, thought that perhaps I might get something with a bit more oomph.

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/categ ... -xml-46489

£89 for 1000 lumens seems quite a good buy but would that be a bit of overkill for cycling down the Old Kent Road? I know it doesn't *have* to be full power but whats the point of having it if you don't use it?

Its USB charging, which is fine but weighs nearly 400g on the downside.

What do you reckon collective?

BigLights

I'm all for Big Lights.....

I've got a Maxx-D (1200 lumens I think) and a Joystick (200 lumens I think). when it's pitch pitch dark in a city I turn them down, but in well lit areas on in twilight it's very useful in avoiding SMIDSYs.

bails87

Do NOT run it on full power in traffic. I've got a similar thing and use it on low when there are other cars around.

I only go up to medium when night MTBing or on empty, unlit country lanes, then it goes back down to low when a car appears. You wouldn't like it if cars drove round with their headlights on full beam all the time

meanredspider

Personally, unless you are doing full attack down an MTB track, I think 1000 lumens is too much. I think I have 400 and it's more than enough for Highland single track roads - and I used to make do with 220 lumens and, even then, hardly used full power. I know there will be others for whom 1000 isn't enough but I'm certainly not one of them

davis

One of my eyes is a bit of a wreck, and I struggle a bit in low light.

1000 lumens is still more than I require, and enough to be offensively or dangerously bright to other people.

walkingbootweather

It can be handy to have high power lights provided you have an option to run lower power in traffic.

Got myself a MagicShine MJ-808 front light, a Magicshine MJ-818 rear light, a Y-Cable and Extension Cable.

If you haven't got one you also need a shaver adaptor.

This comes with separate batteries for front and rear but if you want you can run both from the same battery. Really bright and versatile set-up (options to get head mounts etc,) for about £75 all in (front light on own was less just £40).

Shipped from EU warehouse so expect delivery in about a week.

SimonAH

I use the big can of starlight Magicshine 1200 lumens jobbie. Always on low in town and with the beam angled fairly down. The beam collimation is pretty tight which means that you'd have to be lying on the floor 20ft from me to get properly dazzled.

On a canal path smacked up to high it is friggin' marvelous though! Riding with a mate the other week after dark we ended up pulling a train of five or six bikes all anxious to use the light path!

cyclingprop

LOL. It's great. Dooooo it (but don't run it on full power).

supersonic

Depends on the beam pattern too - if it is a big soft flood compared to a sharp point, then your lumens get spread out over a larger area. These XML lights are quite spotty, so bright - but there are multiple modes.

If you want a more flood type lamp, consider a similar looking unit with a diffuser, or an SSC P7 LED:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SSC-P7-1200Lm ... 3cbcb6f25d

First.Aspect

A HID car headlight (Xenon, white, you know the ones) are around 2-3000 lumens. On that basis, half as much for a bicycle doesn't seen unreasonable.

The key is where it is pointing. Dipped vs. main beam isn't about power these days, its about direction.

When on a bicycle, the relatively diffuse beam of the powerful mtb oriented lights such as the MaxxD light a dark road ahead with the peripheral beam. All the power is good for seeing what's right in front of you. As a cyclist, you are travelling much slower than the average car, so you can point them further down to the road. This avoids dazzle, no matter what the setting, but there is plenty of light to see the general layout of the road you are on.

On the other hand, point even a relatively low powered light right at someone and it can be blinding.

In the city, its about being seen, not seeing. So why waste the battery power?

meanredspider

First Aspect wrote:

A HID car headlight (Xenon, white, you know the ones) are around 2-3000 lumens. On that basis, half as much for a bicycle doesn't seen unreasonable.

Except the HID-equipped car is probably weighing in at 1500-2000kg and travelling anything up to 150mph

cyclingprop

Not on the Old Kent Road...

First.Aspect

meanredspider wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

A HID car headlight (Xenon, white, you know the ones) are around 2-3000 lumens. On that basis, half as much for a bicycle doesn't seen unreasonable.

Except the HID-equipped car is probably weighing in at 1500-2000kg and travelling anything up to 150mph

Why don't they have a dimmer mode for use in towns then?

The question was about how dazzling they are. I made do with a 300ish lumen halogen for ages and thought it was the dogs danglers when I bought it (in about 1998). I love lighting up a country lane with 1200 lumens now though. Why shoudn't I? If the main beam is pointing further down than a car that is travelling typically no more than twice as fast, to my mind its less dazzling than a car headlight and I get no complaints.

I'm not sure I understand where the mass of the vehicle comes into it - surely the key is how fast you are going and how far ahead you can see and so how much warning a light gives you. I know I don't think "gosh, this would hurt so much more if I weighed 1500kg" when I hit the deck. :roll:

meanredspider

First Aspect wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

A HID car headlight (Xenon, white, you know the ones) are around 2-3000 lumens. On that basis, half as much for a bicycle doesn't seen unreasonable.

Except the HID-equipped car is probably weighing in at 1500-2000kg and travelling anything up to 150mph

Why don't they have a dimmer mode for use in towns then?

The question was about how dazzling they are. I made do with a 300ish lumen halogen for ages and thought it was the dogs danglers when I bought it (in about 1998). I love lighting up a country lane with 1200 lumens now though. Why shoudn't I? If the main beam is pointing further down than a car that is travelling typically no more than twice as fast, to my mind its less dazzling than a car headlight and I get no complaints.

I'm not sure I understand where the mass of the vehicle comes into it - surely the key is how fast you are going and how far ahead you can see and so how much warning a light gives you. I know I don't think "gosh, this would hurt so much more if I weighed 1500kg" when I hit the deck. :roll:

Well - a few things

HID lights HAVE to have a self-levelling device. This is to ensure they are pointed in the right direction.

People often complain about HID lights being too bright and dazzling. I have them on a car and they also tend to wash out and dazzle from reflective road sign

The beam pattern is very carefully engineered and the bulb is shielded from direct forward exposure. I doubt bike lights have either of these features.

The reason I added the weight is very simple - the rule of thumb is that you should be able to stop within the distance you can see. The distance it takes to stop (in energy terms) is a function of speed and weight. A 2-tonne BMW will take much longer to stop than a 700kg Caterham. The heavier car also can't corner as well. A bicycle goes nowhere near as fast and can stop much faster - you simply don't need to see anything like the same distance. Conventional car headlights are less than 1000 lumens I believe - they need to achieve the same thing as the HIDs.

As I say, I find 400 lumens quite enough for Highland roads on which I travel up to 40mph.

Sure - we're all like to have daylight levels of lighting (called daylight) but the question was about what's necessary.

First.Aspect

400 lumens at 40mph = braver than I.

But I think we are agreeing. You don't NEED more light necessarily, but in my view it doesn't hurt, although needs to be pointed so that the bright spot is only 5-10 bike lengths in front of you. A "normal" car headlight is about 1000 I think. These aren't self leveling and are dazzling on the crest of hills.

Sharkyssurfers

well I'm a bit more powerful mu ha ha ha ha, I have the 2000 lumens magic shine light on the front and that is really bright if on full power commuting around the city I have it on around 400-600 which is still very bright, but the battery lasts around 2 days depending on how long I keep it on for, I can also recommend the cat eyes nano shot that is small powerful light and does the job commuting wise as well really good.

finnjävel

I've got a B&M Ixon IQ, and can not understand why more bike light manufacturers don't use a beam pattern with a cutoff like B&M do. All the light the Ixon puts out is in a useful pattern (for road riding that is, probably not good for offroad), so it doesn't need a gazillion lumens to light the road and it doen't dazzle oncoming traffic. Or fry birds sitting on the lower branches.
It's enough for me to ride 30 mph on unlit roads. When it's raining, I could use a bit more power, though. So something with maybe 400-600 lumens with a useful beam pattern and dimming modes would probably be plenty, but apparently such beast does not exist, as the light manufacturers are too intent on their silly lumen racing.

meanredspider

First Aspect wrote:

400 lumens at 40mph = braver than I.
.

Possibly



ETA - the brakes on my Volagi are awesome and I do race old cars as a hobby so I'm predisposed to push things a bit.

rick_chasey

meanredspider wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

400 lumens at 40mph = braver than I.
.

Possibly



ETA - the brakes on my Volagi are awesome and I do race old cars as a hobby so I'm predisposed to push things a bit.

There's a fair bit of light inflation in London.

My little tesco £1 lights are perfectly visible in Cambridge and pootling through Girton but you won't be able to see it if riding alongside heavy traffic in the middle of Embankment.

jedster

I've got a B&M Ixon IQ, and can not understand why more bike light manufacturers don't use a beam pattern with a cutoff like B&M do. All the light the Ixon puts out is in a useful pattern (for road riding that is, probably not good for offroad), so it doesn't need a gazillion lumens to light the road and it doen't dazzle oncoming traffic. Or fry birds sitting on the lower branches.
It's enough for me to ride 30 mph on unlit roads. When it's raining, I could use a bit more power, though. So something with maybe 400-600 lumens with a useful beam pattern and dimming modes would probably be plenty, but apparently such beast does not exist, as the light manufacturers are too intent on their silly lumen racing.

Thanks - saved me the effort of writing exactly this!

UndercoverElephant

Finnjävel wrote:

I've got a B&M Ixon IQ, and can not understand why more bike light manufacturers don't use a beam pattern with a cutoff like B&M do. All the light the Ixon puts out is in a useful pattern (for road riding that is, probably not good for offroad), so it doesn't need a gazillion lumens to light the road and it doen't dazzle oncoming traffic. Or fry birds sitting on the lower branches.
It's enough for me to ride 30 mph on unlit roads. When it's raining, I could use a bit more power, though. So something with maybe 400-600 lumens with a useful beam pattern and dimming modes would probably be plenty, but apparently such beast does not exist, as the light manufacturers are too intent on their silly lumen racing.

I have the B&M Cyo, like you say, the beam pattern is superb. It's 'only' about 300 lumens, but *all* of them are pointing at the road. Remarkably, it's actually a lot brighter in use than my 1,000 lumen Magicshine MJ-868 (which I have for mountain biking and backup bikes), as the whole road is illuminated evenly, rather than the Magicshine having a hot-spot which ruins any chance of seeing the rest of the road.

The new B&M Luxos U light looks interesting too: it has dipped (70 Lux) and full-beam (90 Lux) modes, switchable from the bars and has a USB charging port too.

finnjävel

Looks pretty good: http://www.bumm.de/fileadmin/user_uploa ... 012_GB.pdf
I think I may need to try that one on.

EDIT: Oh, it's dynamo only? That's too bad.

mudcow007

ride with what ever you want just dont point it up in the faces of people coming towards you

i fecking hate that

ive got a chinese copy (ebay) of the magicshine for the front of mine, supposedly 1600 lumens, its like a light sabre in the pitch black

i ride on a disused railway line which is literally full of scally wags who lie in wait ready to ambush people, so i use my light sabre/ light as a bit of a weapon to blind the buggers before they can get me

pangolin

People love pointing their x00 lumen lights straight ahead in Richmond Park all winter. Often end up squinting at the road, aiming roughly down your own side and hoping for the best. Really annoying.

Signal at them to dim them but doubt most of them care. What's the solution? Most of the people who are blinding other cyclists won't be the sort to go on forums. Chase them down and cut the cable?

UndercoverElephant

Finnjävel wrote:

Looks pretty good: http://www.bumm.de/fileadmin/user_uploa ... 012_GB.pdf
I think I may need to try that one on.

EDIT: Oh, it's dynamo only? That's too bad.

Dynamos are the shizzle.

rhext

If you need to see where you're going, there's no such thing as too much power.

If you're about town, though, you only need to be seen and 1,000 lumens is way over the top unless the beam is properly shaped (very few bike lights are...). I swapped my MTB 500-lumens jobbie for a cheapie cateye this year. I'll have to go back to the MTB light when the clocks go back, because some of my route is unlit, but it'll be on the lowest power setting and angled downwards about town.

On the back roads, if you don't turn it down, the next thing you know oncoming drivers are putting their full-beam headlights on in retaliation. So that's two of you who can't see where they're going properly, closing at about 50MPH, one of whom is sitting inside a nice heavy metal box, one of whom isn't. You want drivers to be able to see as much as possible for your own sake as well as other road users.

Pufftmw

cyclingprop wrote:

Not on the Old Kent Road...

Bloody hope not :shock:

jedster

On the back roads, if you don't turn it down, the next thing you know oncoming drivers are putting their full-beam headlights on in retaliation. So that's two of you who can't see where they're going properly, closing at about 50MPH, one of whom is sitting inside a nice heavy metal box, one of whom isn't. You want drivers to be able to see as much as possible for your own sake as well as other road users.

Very true
If being uitterly obnoxious doesnt put you off then this self-interest should!

Wrath Rob

pangolin wrote:

People love pointing their x00 lumen lights straight ahead in Richmond Park all winter. Often end up squinting at the road, aiming roughly down your own side and hoping for the best. Really annoying.

Signal at them to dim them but doubt most of them care. What's the solution? Most of the people who are blinding other cyclists won't be the sort to go on forums. Chase them down and cut the cable?

Had my first after dark ride in RP last week experienced some of this too. I normally cover mine with my hand when I get close. If the gesture's not reciprocated then I normally shout "lights!", and if nothing happens then uncover mine to reinforce the point that its not nice having very bright lights pointed in your face.

jthef

I have a magicshine set up and like it, plus a tourch on helmet flashing in town and on full power down the lanes (900 lumins). Magnishine on low power in town to be seen by. And down the lanes its 900 + on depending what speed and if the ground is wet.

As for HID lights car head lights I think they should be banned. They are too bright and distracting. they draw your eyes too them so you see them and not the other cars/bikes on the road. and as for the self leving it does not workproperly because I keep getting blinded and not able to see anything outher than these lights when out cycling.
I think more people are going to out with the " sorry mate I did not see you", because they havent as HID are overpowering all other lights!