Massive steep hill

jeepie

I'm struggling with a very steep quite long hill near where I live (Streatley hill). Towards the top I hit my max heart rate, I can't see very well due to the exertion and my legs feel like someone has been breaking rocks on them. I'd like to know how to improve as I can only just make it to the top.

Here's the hill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh2R0L00oQI) fast forward to 6:30 and listen to the guys breathing which is quite like mine when I'm doing it....

The question is:

1) Are my legs too weak so I need to get stronger to push a bigger gear. How could I improve this?

OR

2) Is my heart not fit enough to push the blood round. How could I improve this?

cougie

Simple answer ? Ride more - and practice on the hills. The more you do - the stronger you'll get.

Jimfrandisco

I probably ride this once every couple of weeks and don't really have a problem with it, but that's probably because i'm on a triple and can just tootle up - if i was on a standard double i'd be walking.

Mind you, my wife made it up there last week on her first road ride since having a baby a year ago!

Apparently there is a hill climb event there on the 30th...you may pick up a few tips there!

karlth

Gearing? That's a very serious hill and I certainly don't think I could do it in "normal" road gearing.

racingcondor

There's not really enough info to answer your questions but I suspect pushing a bigger gear is just going to mean you don't make it up.

Assuming you're in the granny gear by the time you reach the top and crawling up at 6 mph your best bet is to focus on taking it as easier on the early parts of the climb and then assuming you have anything left by the top push yourself there (or turn around and do it again!).

It would be useful to know -
Are you attacking the hill hard from the start?
Are you in the granny gear by the top?
Do you know your cadence?

Answering those questions may help with technique but the real answer is almost certainly to ride more and get stronger.

EDIT - Just googled it and I'm not surprised it's brutal. It's used for club hill climbs.

karlth

It's 20% at one point. Anyone who can do that at 6mph (or, indeed, class 6mph as "crawling") I class as "extremely athletic", given that I go up 10% hills at around 5mph. Anyone posting in beginners would, I'd imagine, need very low gearing for it.

CiB

Aaah Streatley Hill. I encountered that unexpectedly 50+ miles into a 100 miler one afternoon. It's brutal, and tbh isn't representative of normal hills or hill-climbing abilities. I don't mind admitting I got off & walked*; I knew there were still nearly 50 to go so no point in killing myself for one climb.

Use other hills to guide you in your gauging of fitness, and come back to this one occasionally to see how you're progressing. Gear wise I'd think (know actually) that 39/25 is too high; a 39/28 might be low enough but a 32 would give you a fighting chance if you have a degree of fitness.

Note that Streatley is also in the 100 Cycling Climbs book so is one of the hardest around. Don't beat yourself up over it.

* A golfist at the top saw me just after I'd got back on and asked if I'd ridden up. Like a brazen hussy I claimed I had with an added phew it was hard for good measure. Felt guilty about it for most of the next 200 yards tbh.

jeepie

Thanks for the replies. I have a compact chain set. 50/34. I have a 11-25 (I think) cassette. Shimano 105. I put the bike in the small chain ring on the front and then change to the easiest gear on the back at the start of the hill as I'm not confident changing under very high load. For me it's simply a matter of survival to get to the top. I'm not attacking just trying to stay on the bike all the way up.

The climb starts off ok, but soon it rears up so that it's so steep I can hardly turn the pedals. I then stand and cannot sit again until the top otherwise I'll fall off as my speed will drop.

I was just trying to work out how to get better at it. I've done it a few times and now I've I introduced a few friends to it and now it's getting a bit competitive.

It's a 6 mile ride from my house so I can't just pop out and ride it. I was wondering where the weak point was. My legs feel like they are burning up. My lungs are bursting and breathing is totally ragged. My heart is beating so fast it's almost frightening.

So is just cycling down and doing it again the best way? I doubt I could complete it a second time...

karlth

No weakness per se; it's just one bastard of a hill. You could try changing to a cassette with a 28 or larger lowest gear, and ignore the "My granny could do that, MTFU" macho brigade. There's a short 20% I do around here which I really struggle with on 30x25.

I think your best chance is to practice on easier hills at first.

CiB

Jeepie wrote:

It's a 6 mile ride from my house so I can't just pop out and ride it. I was wondering where the weak point was. My legs feel like they are burning up. My lungs are bursting and breathing is totally ragged. My heart is beating so fast it's almost frightening.

So is just cycling down and doing it again the best way? I doubt I could complete it a second time...

BIB - that's almost a perfect distance, a 6 mile warm-up then have a pop at it.

It really is a strength issue - you're propelling you + bike up a v steep gradient using leverage (lee-vuh-rej, not levv-ah-rej) to do it. It's hard walking up; adding the gearing makes it harder. Compare how far you'd move for one pace and compare that with one turn of the pedals and you begin to see how much more effort is needed to propel you + bike forwards & upwards.

thegreatdivide

You call that a tough one! Try this for size

http://www.strava.com/segments/pitroddie-climb-1538696

27% sections and it’s not a Strava error - it’s a wall ;-)

But on a serious note - keep at it!!!

simona75

I ride up Streatley occasionally and as many have said there is no magic solution - id say it's as hard as anything else ive ridden up in the SE of England. I'm not a big fan as its quite a busy road. The only advice i have is that I try to ride the first third a bit easy as its easy to overdo it early. this leaves something in the tank for the middle third which is where it ramps up.

DHA987S

Have the last KOM hill from stage 8 of the tour near me (Barhatch Hill) and it hits over 20% in places. Took me a while to crack it but you need to pace yourself on the shallower bits, go slower than you would to keep something in the tank, and try try try again. Try it twice a week for a month and I bet you crack it!

rolf_f

CiB wrote:

Note that Streatley is also in the 100 Cycling Climbs book so is one of the hardest around. Don't beat yourself up over it.

It's a 5 out of 10! Up here, every couple of miles is a climb that would rate a 5 out of 10. Simon Warren could have written another book called 100 best 5 out of 10 climbs in West Yorkshire and still have had plenty of material for a sequel!

To the OP - from the same book is Whiteleaf near Princess Risborough which is a 6 and in the new book Kingston Hill though that's only a 2 out of 10 and presumably barely more of a hiccup in the topography than the infamous Col du Balham Hill. Give those a go for some more upward fun!

fudbeer

Jeepie

I always struggle with Winnats pass which is another killer,I find the following helps.

1,Start really slowly so the time you go into oxeygen debt is as late as possible.
2,Stay in the saddle for as long as possible you use less energy that way.
3,When you do get out of the saddle keep going at the same speed many people accelerate when they do this but remember the objective is to get to the top not the speed.
4,Try alternating between in and out of the saddle counting peddle turns in each position.

Finally I find the key is to really keep the speed right down all the climb until you have mastered it I bet there are some points where you are not going at minimum speed.

Good luck.

chaos75

Could have done with a NSFW warning on that video. Not sure people are going to believe I was watching a cycling video after hearing a German guy panting and heavy breathing all over the place.

secretsam

Rolf F wrote:

CiB wrote:

Note that Streatley is also in the 100 Cycling Climbs book so is one of the hardest around. Don't beat yourself up over it.

It's a 5 out of 10! Up here, every couple of miles is a climb that would rate a 5 out of 10. Simon Warren could have written another book called 100 best 5 out of 10 climbs in West Yorkshire and still have had plenty of material for a sequel!

To the OP - from the same book is Whiteleaf near Princess Risborough which is a 6 and in the new book Kingston Hill though that's only a 2 out of 10 and presumably barely more of a hiccup in the topography than the infamous Col du Balham Hill. Give those a go for some more upward fun!

I know Whiteleaf well, it's a total b**tard, very steep, two blind bends and (worst of all) the approach is dead straight...so you can just see the damn thing coming...never managed to ride it without stopping but will get there one day. BTW, it's absolutely f**kin' terrifying going down it, I heartily recommend giving that a miss unless you enjoy extreme sports like bungee jumping with the bungee round your 'nads or something.

Round the corner from Whiteleaf is Kop Hill, which is also insanely steep (there's a classic car hill climb there in a couple of weeks) but it's dead straight. I've gone up it once and down it loads of times :shock: :twisted: (52.6mph max :!: , FWIW)

racingcondor

karlth wrote:

It's 20% at one point. Anyone who can do that at 6mph (or, indeed, class 6mph as "crawling") I class as "extremely athletic", given that I go up 10% hills at around 5mph. Anyone posting in beginners would, I'd imagine, need very low gearing for it.

6mph was only meant as an example of round about the lowest reasonable speed on a 39-25 before you fall off.

I'm not surprised people suffer up this one if it holds 20% for any length of time. I think (short of buying a mountain bike) the best advice is probably approach it well below threshold and focus on keeping an even cadence for as long as you can, easing off and standing up before you have to. The only other advice is ride more, get fitter.

Some climbs are destined to beat you though (first time especially). I had a holiday in the lakes last year, planned a nice route out and the most direct back (i.e. didn't look at it in detail). With 15 miles to go I came across a ridiculously steep bit of road (20% ish) heading up into some trees and turning left but, since it was only a couple of hundread ft long thought I'd sprint up it assuming it would flatten out round the corner. Anyone know Hornister Pass...

rolf_f

racingcondor wrote:

Anyone know Hornister Pass...

An absolute sweetie of a climb*! Can I recommend the Keswick Mountain Festival Sportive to you. It dispenses with the filler that a lot of other Lakes Sportives do and just focuses on Honister, Newlands and Whinlatter - doing each of them twice; once in each direction! It's grand - there's hardly a moment where you aren't either climbing a pass or descending it!

*but I can see you might have been a bit depressed about it if you were expecting to top out above the trees

karlth

racingcondor wrote:

karlth wrote:

It's 20% at one point. Anyone who can do that at 6mph (or, indeed, class 6mph as "crawling") I class as "extremely athletic", given that I go up 10% hills at around 5mph. Anyone posting in beginners would, I'd imagine, need very low gearing for it.

6mph was only meant as an example of round about the lowest reasonable speed on a 39-25 before you fall off.

I'm not surprised people suffer up this one if it holds 20% for any length of time. I think (short of buying a mountain bike) the best advice is probably approach it well below threshold and focus on keeping an even cadence for as long as you can, easing off and standing up before you have to. The only other advice is ride more, get fitter.

Some climbs are destined to beat you though (first time especially). I had a holiday in the lakes last year, planned a nice route out and the most direct back (i.e. didn't look at it in detail). With 15 miles to go I came across a ridiculously steep bit of road (20% ish) heading up into some trees and turning left but, since it was only a couple of hundread ft long thought I'd sprint up it assuming it would flatten out round the corner. Anyone know Hornister Pass...

Indeed I do. I failed to get up it on a motorbike once - front wheel straight up in the air.

This is why I always use OS maps to plan routes - contours are everything.

Interestingly wrt the 6mph figure, I found that's what I was doing on the way home tonight up the steepest hill en route. Bikehike claims it's 10% but I think it doesn't account for the variation, because I swear it's nearer 15% at the steepest two bits. It's always nice overtaking people who are pushing MTBs.

MartinB2444

With regard to the question of developing cardiovascular fitness or leg strength, both matter but it is your oxygen debt which will ultimately stop you. Your heart rate becomes close to maxing out and you can only maintain this effort for a short period. Good fit leg muscles will help but you don't need big bulging quads.

The quickest way of building your fitness for this sort of climb is climbing the hill - because it is high intensity. However, you can also try high intensity intervals on flatter terrain. Try flat out for a minute, then recover for a couple of minutes and then go again. 5 repetitions of that could have you puking in the verge. Training like this will build your endurance quicker than cycling round at a steady tempo.

Martin

sim303

An easy thing you can work on straight away is the breathing itself. It'll take time to build up your legs and lungs but you can focus your breathing now and it'll make a big difference. Breathing slow and deeply, to a rhythm that is in time with your movement. Avoid the ragged, gulping gasps as that is not an efficient way to get the O2 into your body. I use a steady, deep breathing rhythm as the driving metronome for the climb (not the other way round), and it really helps.

sim

slowondefy2

Breathing, the Graeme Obree way

RoadMeridaBen

I was going up a hill the other day that hits 20% for a bit and it took 450 watts just to keep moving (http://app.strava.com/rides/20739692#371855273)

Im not a fan of ultra steep climbs but they do get easier, need to sort my gear indexing out as I cant get into the 25 tooth at the moment so a 39/23 is my lowest for these sort of climbs so spend half the climb pedaling squares when the percentages ramp up :P

MattC59

There's some brazen red light jumping in that video, and its a sh*t junction to take that risk on !

PlymouthSam

fudbeer wrote:

Jeepie

I always struggle with Winnats pass which is another killer,I find the following helps.

1,Start really slowly so the time you go into oxeygen debt is as late as possible.
2,Stay in the saddle for as long as possible you use less energy that way.
3,When you do get out of the saddle keep going at the same speed many people accelerate when they do this but remember the objective is to get to the top not the speed.
4,Try alternating between in and out of the saddle counting peddle turns in each position.

Finally I find the key is to really keep the speed right down all the climb until you have mastered it I bet there are some points where you are not going at minimum speed.

Good luck.

This ^^^^ and also keep looking to the top of the hill not the front wheel as it gives you something to focus on and isnt too depressing watching your front wheel struggle to turn lol.

As others have said you could use it as a hill to train on regularly and im positive your fitness and strength levels will sky rocket with enough miles on the hill.

Good luck

Chunky101

I know this is a very old thread but worth reviving. I had my first stab at Streatley hill today and it really is a swine. I don't mind admitting I had to stop and get my heart rate down ... twice. I did not walk, I got back on and cycled all the way up although it was so steep getting going again was a challenge in itself. Next time ....

Keyringkey

cougie wrote:

Simple answer ? Ride more - and practice on the hills. The more you do - the stronger you'll get.

I second that. Where i live near the pennine hills you have no choice but to climb hills and believe me there are some beauties, like tour-de france routes. I use to struggle but poor determination i now can ride these hills with ease. So keep riding these hills and you will get stronger.

Also, I would recommend you speak to your doctor and have an examination on your health to makesure you are healthy to ride these hills. 8)

veronese68

Rolf F wrote:

CiB wrote:

Note that Streatley is also in the 100 Cycling Climbs book so is one of the hardest around. Don't beat yourself up over it.

It's a 5 out of 10! Up here, every couple of miles is a climb that would rate a 5 out of 10. Simon Warren could have written another book called 100 best 5 out of 10 climbs in West Yorkshire and still have had plenty of material for a sequel!

To the OP - from the same book is Whiteleaf near Princess Risborough which is a 6 and in the new book Kingston Hill though that's only a 2 out of 10 and presumably barely more of a hiccup in the topography than the infamous Col du Balham Hill. Give those a go for some more upward fun!

Kingston upon Hull? Kingston, Jamaica?

Manc33

This is why I ended up on a 52/38/24 chainset with a 11-32t cassette, yes on a road bike.

Now there's nowhere I can't go. 8)

I got a bike to go places, not to "train for months then try it again". :roll:

The only thing I have lost is having a close ratio, which I couldn't care less about even on the road.

I was in that lowest gear last night getting up a 9% incline. Last night was one of the only times I got up it without having to stop.

OP it alternated with me between my lungs and legs, first I was getting out of breath, when that's happening you're not even fully using your legs, but after a few months you don't get as out of breath and you can do miles more.

Bobbinogs

Manc33 wrote:

This is why I ended up on a 52/38/24 chainset with a 11-32t cassette,...
I was in that lowest gear last night getting up a 9% incline. Last night was one of the only times I got up it without having to stop...

mmm, so I can understand that some folks don't like the concept of training but having to resort to a 24/32 to get up a 9 % incline does sound like a few more hills/hill reps/intervals would be of benefit. I would also advocate some of the good tips above about technique as I often find that the biggest challenge for riders is the confidence and skill to stay upright and in good form whilst riding at very low speeds up a climb.