Some incidents to upset an otherwise lovely morning

extrusion

I don't normally get that many incidents on my commute. Considering it's approx 19 miles each way that's not bad, most of it's country roads so that'll probably explain things, but this morning I had the delight of three!

First I'm approaching a junction, on country lane that leads onto a fast A road, to turn right. I check behind, move to the middle of the lane and start veering slightly over to the right to get the correct road position.

I see a shadow and hear an engine very close behind me, look left, nothing, then right and there's the nose of a car right next to me leg! So I ease right a bit more just to say, "Look, I'm here, and i'm bloody owning this bit of road right!" He then continues to put his car next to me and edge forward until we stop at the junction. His car is now 80% in the wrong lane.

"I'm turning here", I say. He winds his window down. "What?". "I'm turning here, you're going to cut me up"

"Aren't you supposed to put your arm out when turning?"

I blustered. Obviously the correct reply was, "Fuck off dickhead", or perhaps "You're lecturing me on how to ride a bike whilst you've got your car on the wrong side of the road?" Or a thousand other things that occurred to me afterwards of course.

I said no. "No.", he said. "You're obligated to", before pulling out and revving off. In his daughter's Nissan micra.

I have stopped indicating in most places now, other than turning right and trying to veer across a car's path, say from a main road to right hand junction. I stopped because I used to indicate left to turn off a road and one day a tosser overtook me round the corner and I always bear right straight after this turn. Luckily I glanced behind to make sure (as always) before moving right so didn't get mown down.

So that was incident one, the other two were nothing much to write home about. A grey haired man looking straight at me then pulling out before screeching to a halt in the middle of the road. A grey haired woman oblivious to anything behind her, cutting up the cycle lane etc.

Anyway, discussed with colleague who rides. He says "I always indicate". Now, I don't believe in it because of aforementioned reasons. I think my road position should have been enough to tell him where I was going. It was one of a) straight on or b) right. Either way he had no call to be next to me on the other side of the road!

What do you think, should I have indeed mouthed "Oh fuck off", to him as he drove off. Or should I have got off my bike, lain it down, bowed and allowed the almighty motorist to have full right of way?

Sorry, this is part rant more than anything. Just wanted to get it orrff my chest!

Kieran_Burns

You should indicate. Sorry, but you just should.

graeme_s-2

You're right that they should be able to infer your intention from road positioning, but I would generally indicate as well. Occasionally I don't if I feel having two hands on the bars is more beneficial than indicating, but this is fairly rare and would usually be a circumstance where my intent to turn would have no impact on another road user.

extrusion

It was an empty road when I moved into position (bendy country lane), I can't indicate forever, need to be braking and getting the right gears as well surely?

graeme_s-2

In those circumstances I might not have been indicating when he drove up either then. Hard to say without being there.

I would have indicated before moving across even if I knew the road behind me was clear though - just force of habit really.

extrusion

Fair enough.

If i was driving behind someone though, that close to the junction, I would have backed off even if I thought they were turning left. Maybe that's because I cycle.

He was clearly some kind of grumpy vigilante making a point. Fine, I mean you never see a car not indicating do you. And that's so much harder to do, juggling all those levers and phones and radios and noses and stuff ...

bails87

I'd see what's behind and in front of me, if nothing then I wouldn't indicate.
But I'd keep checking what was behind me. If a car caught up I'd certainly give a quick indication so he knew what I was doing.

If you went from being totally alone on the road to having a car next to you, without once having looked back or indicated, and then you moved even further right without signalling then I would expect a driver to be annoyed. It just takes a second to show them where you're going, you don't need to constantly brake and change gear, surely?

If I, as a cyclist, was driving, I like to think I'd recognise what was going on and just wait until after the junction, but I wouldn't expect other drivers to figure it out.

greg66_tri_v2.0

There's one one way to settle whether you were in the wrong or not.

Campag or Shimano? Which one is on your bike?

extrusion

Well, I guess, like the driver I will just continue to think I was in the right and like many situations that get disected on this forum the phrase "you had to be be there" shall be uttered.

(Wishes he had put this in the rant section :roll: )

extrusion

Greg66 wrote:

There's one one way to settle whether you were in the wrong or not.

Campag or Shimano? Which one is on your bike?

Haha

Shimano! Right or wrong??

fat_tail

well I had two noteworthy incidents. First, coming down a main road at a reasonable clip in the cycle lane and a Golf comes out from a side road, completely ignores me and then proceeds to argue when I remonstrated with the driver. Second incident, going round a roundabout (big one next to Waterloo bridge) and a car comes out of the left lane and almost knocked me down even though we both were looking at each other ! London is full of rubbish drivers who are half asleep at 7 AM

extrusion

yeah? but did you indicate?

cookdn

fat_tail wrote:

London is full of rubbish drivers who are half asleep at 7 AM

Nah, the whole of the UK is full of rubbish drivers who are half asleep at 7 AM, unfortunately it isn't just a phenomenon of the capital . Just wait until the frosty mornings start and they can't be bothered to defrost their windows :roll:.

cookdn

extrusion wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

There's one one way to settle whether you were in the wrong or not.

Campag or Shimano? Which one is on your bike?

Haha

Shimano! Right or wrong??

What is the answer for SRAM? :?

kelsen

Rule of thumb is to indicate if there is any chance your manoeuvre might be misinterpreted by another road user.

rrobbo

Indicate!
In fact check, indicate, check. And check again. Better to indicate too much and no-one sees than not enough, the more clues you give to other road users the better.
For me comes under the category of 'measure twice, cut once'.
Just my 2 p'orth.

walkingbootweather

extrusion wrote:

It was an empty road when I moved into position (bendy country lane), I can't indicate forever, need to be braking and getting the right gears as well surely?

You need to go FG then. Saves having to use hands for changing gear and braking and leaves them free for indicating

We had a debate on here a while ago about the practice in advanced driving training not to indicate unless there was somebody to indicate too, and I was a little surprised that the majority of people were in favouring of indicating regardless 'cause "what harm can it do?" My stance is that before changing position I'd check to see if there was anyone in front or behind of me that might be interested in my intention and if there was I'd indicate. If there wasn't any traffic then I'd not bother. I'd try and make my manoeuvre very definate e.g. decidedly in one lane or another when approaching a junction. The fact that a car could get from nowhere to right next to you without your knowledge is a bit worrying.

At the end of the day there are some idiots out there and the best tactic is generally just to keep as far out of their way as possible.

Curious Yellow

I'm with you on this one. You can't always indicate and sometimes it's not safe to. Especially when you're at a roundabout. It's also incredibly frustrating to be lectured by someone on the law when they're obviously not following it themselves. The sanctimonious pricks.

From what I can tell you are supposed to signal before you move off:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... /DG_069837

However, I don't know how aware motorists are of our hand signals, and I've seen enough evidence that most motorists aren't very good at interpreting cyclists' road positions as well.

Some days I look forward to the ride to work and back. Some days it feels like I'm taking my life in my own hands. Don't let them get you down mate. My worst day on a bike is always better than my best day in a car. Just keep riding and be vigilant. Don't get drawn into arguments, because if someone is stupid enough to not be capable of interpreting your road position then they're not clever enough to follow your line of reasoning.

Team4Luke

as far as I know, there is no legal requirement to indicate, even in a car, you should indicate when other road users are around you, if none, then not required. Might be wrong ?

rolf_f

I have to admit that sometimes I deliberately don't indicate - eg a particular downhill approach to a left turn at a traffic light protected crossroads. I can be approaching at a fair lick and I've found that all indicating does is give any approaching right turning cars a green light to take the corner before they think I've reached it (only by then I may already have got there). I'd rather they wait for me at that one. Sometimes it's best to keep your intentions to yourself.......

As for right turns onto a main road - I have one that I never really know how to treat. Do I approach in primary and keep any following car behind me (which can be a pain for the car as the junction is the sort where there is often a long period of queues of cars coming in alternate directions) or do I go a bit left and try to give space for cars going both left and right to draw alongside me given that to give space on my left might put the car on the right just over the white lines (and if there isn't a car already waiting to go left, the approaching right turning car might think I've chosen a stupid place to stop)? A right turning car alongside me isn't going to be in my way in anyway.

cyclingprop

cookdn wrote:

Nah, the whole of the UK is full of rubbish drivers

FTFY.

First.Aspect

I'm in the - indicate at all times camp. There really shoudn't be any reason not too. If its "not safe to indicate" it generally means that you are going too fast for the conditions. We have pretty steep roads in my area, in pretty poor condition. I manage to indicate right at the foot of some of the steeper ones okay.

That said, not indicating is not a good reason for a motorist to place you at risk. We all make minor errors.

cookdn

cyclingprop wrote:

cookdn wrote:

Nah, the whole of the UK is full of rubbish drivers

FTFY.

How ? :?

On reflection I find dodging the half asleep drivers at 0700 is much easier than trying to stay out of the path of the kamikaze idiots who are late for either the school run or work (or both) from 0800.

Best regards
David

cyclingprop

cookdn wrote:

cyclingprop wrote:

cookdn wrote:

Nah, the whole of the UK is full of rubbish drivers

FTFY.

How ? :?

On reflection I find dodging the half asleep drivers at 0700 is much easier than trying to stay out of the path of the kamikaze idiots who are late for either the school run or work (or both) from 0800.

Best regards
David

Experience suggests that rubbishness is not limited to those who are only just awake enough to turn the key.

graeme_s-2

First Aspect wrote:

I'm in the - indicate at all times camp. There really shoudn't be any reason not too. If its "not safe to indicate" it generally means that you are going too fast for the conditions. We have pretty steep roads in my area, in pretty poor condition. I manage to indicate right at the foot of some of the steeper ones okay.

Yep, I think that's fair. The sort of situations I was referring to are when I've slightly misjudged something, or when the situation has changed in a way I hadn't anticipated and wanted both hands on the bars. It's not the sort of thing I'd always do at certain junctions.

greg66_tri_v2.0

extrusion wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

There's one one way to settle whether you were in the wrong or not.

Campag or Shimano? Which one is on your bike?

Haha

Shimano! Right or wrong??

Very badly wrong, I'm afraid.

Frankly you were lucky the driver didn't run you down then reverse back over you for good measure. With a bunch of policemen and Campag riders standing by giving polite but sober applause.

Well, at least you know now...

dhope

Greg66 wrote:

extrusion wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

There's one one way to settle whether you were in the wrong or not.

Campag or Shimano? Which one is on your bike?

Haha

Shimano! Right or wrong??

Very badly wrong, I'm afraid.

Frankly you were lucky the driver didn't run you down then reverse back over you for good measure. With a bunch of policemen and Campag riders standing by giving polite but sober applause.

Well, at least you know now...

I'm confused, wear Castelli and prefer Shimano. Does not compute.

Also, can you change your avatar, I keep on thinking you're ITB. Was going to ask if you'd indicated before the deer took you out.

extrusion

dhope wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

extrusion wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

There's one one way to settle whether you were in the wrong or not.

Campag or Shimano? Which one is on your bike?

Haha

Shimano! Right or wrong??

Very badly wrong, I'm afraid.

Frankly you were lucky the driver didn't run you down then reverse back over you for good measure. With a bunch of policemen and Campag riders standing by giving polite but sober applause.

Well, at least you know now...

I'm confused, wear Castelli and prefer Shimano. Does not compute.

Also, can you change your avatar, I keep on thinking you're ITB. Was going to ask if you'd indicated before the deer took you out.

Aye captain!

extrusion

dhope wrote:

I'm confused, wear Castelli and prefer Shimano. Does not compute.

Also, can you change your avatar, I keep on thinking you're ITB. Was going to ask if you'd indicated before the deer took you out.

Better?

clarkey cat

heh heh

pangolin

At least change the text to a local hill