Heresy ?.....but Im enjoying Vuelta 2012 more than TDF 2012

Mikey23

Those wattages yes. I could kind of accept that contador is some super hero type person who can reinvent human endurance in that tiny stick like frame ... But I don't. I might be wrong and missing out on something quite awesome. Which is the state this frigging corrupt sport has got itself into. I just don't know and it sucks ...

dave_1

I think the Vuelta should be seen as as good as the other two Grand Tours now and moved to late April/May again. It's been a great race, though am left wondering how Decker is so poor off PEDs and Bert is as good as ever...I think Bert will not have stopped doping

rick_chasey

Any word on Vuelta power outputs?

It's all very well saying it's obviously doping, but it's a tough parcours.

Raffles

Dave_1 wrote:

I think the Vuelta should be seen as as good as the other two Grand Tours now and moved to late April/May again. It's been a great race, though am left wondering how Decker is so poor off PEDs and Bert is as good as ever...I think Bert will not have stopped doping

innocent until proved guilty ?

greasedscotsman

Raffles wrote:

Are some of you saying that this years Vuelta isnt that good ?

I think its been action all the way and those epic uphill rides have just been fascinating to watch as riders truly suffer on them. To be honest, I found the TDF a yawn by comparison.

Yes, the Vuelta isn't that good. For the first two weeks we either had uphill sprints fought out between Rodriguez, Valverde and Contador or it was a flat sprint where Degenkolb won. Then Wednesday's stage where something different did happen, we only saw the last 30km or so when the interesting bit had already happened.

Final week of the Giro was better.

Pross

Turfle wrote:

The passing of time is certainly treating the Giro well.

Exactly, it was as big a snorefest as the Tour on the whole.

Having 3 Spanish riders who are all well suited to the race route has made this an exciting race and I'm not sure this is something organisers get replicate - every now and again it just works out right like the 2010 Giro did.

That said, on the whole even the Vuelta has only been exciting on the last climb / few kms of the day with Stage 18 being the notable exception. The format has worked well though:- have some shortish steep climbs, add in bonus seconds and the top riders will try to win the stages instead of just trying not to lose time then have a fairly lumpy and not too long time trial so that the mountains are the only place to gain time. Add in probably the 3 most explosive climbers out there and it looks spectacular. It will be interesting to see the polar opposites of Contador / J Rod against the Team Sky express in next years Tour to see if my theory is true that the attacks, whilst looking spectacular, don't ultimately gain that much if another rider refuses to get drawn in.

The thing that the Vuelta lacks for me is quality of TV coverage though, camera bike don't seem to know where they should be at times and get in the way of riders whilst failing to produce good pictures.

The Tour is too big for its own good and riders would rather settle for a top 10 that risk it all for possible glory.

deejay

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Lots of foreign folk lost interest in the Tour, when Sky domestiques continually dropped
all the Tour contenders on what climbs there were in that dud.

FFS. What Tour contenders.
Am I supposed to get excited about Evans. Well I never have.
In the Worlds he left his wheel sucking to chase after 2 domestic riders and then decides he can TT better than them.
Good Luck to him .

I know I can't argue about Sky/drugs because your niece rides in the GB setup and should know why they have improved her performances.
So I bow to your knowledge.

blazing_saddles

deejay wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Lots of foreign folk lost interest in the Tour, when Sky domestiques continually dropped
all the Tour contenders on what climbs there were in that dud.

FFS. What Tour contenders.
Am I supposed to get excited about Evans. Well I never have.
In the Worlds he left his wheel sucking to chase after 2 domestic riders and then decides he can TT better than them.
Good Luck to him .

I know I can't argue about Sky/drugs because your niece rides in the GB setup and should know why they have improved her performances.
So I bow to your knowledge.

I'm not sure I follow your post, entirely.
I agree that the field wasn't particularly strong and Evans can be good or bad at the Tour.
Certainly, there were a lot of sour grapes from his fans.
Merely pointing out that on other, more international forums there has been a lot of
negative postings re Sky's control at the Tour.

As for Sky/drugs, the Clinic is awash with speculative threads on this.
I admit I occasionally have to bite my keyboard, over there, but I'm afraid
that comes with the territory.
As you say, I know what I know.
That shouldn't mean that anyone should feel they can't post their own impression.

Sorry for any offence that may have been caused by the OP.

iainf72

deejay wrote:

Am I supposed to get excited about Evans. Well I never have.
In the Worlds he left his wheel sucking to chase after 2 domestic riders and then decides he can TT better than them.
Good Luck to him .

You don't know watch much cycling, do you?

frenchfighter

My opinion would echo what Pross said about the Vuelta. Short stages with explosive last 20 odd km, before then nothing. Sprints are not that great. Breakaways are not good. Definitely enjoying it a lot though. The unpredictability of the podium as well as the fighting spirit of the top three has been superb.

The Tour will win every time for breakaways if not for GC. LLS, Voeckler, Chavanel on form, Voigt and some others are dreams to watch. Sagan was great, as was Nibali for his efforts, albeit fruitless.

100% don't share Richs attitude. Let the best and most courageous man win. Which is why before el Pistelero's long ranger, I would have been happy for Joaquim to top the podo. Here's hoping those two smash Valverde into third today!

The Grio was excellent viewing. Chavez ride on stage Six was superb, Tiralongo won a stage, as did Pozzo and not forgetting Rambo's and Gendt's epic solo efforts. Joaquim won a couple and looks superb in Giro pink. Guardini beat Cav fair and square. Kreuziger blew and lost a packet then attempted a long ranger and won the stage. The GC switched a decent amount and Joaquim lost it on the final day. Hesjedal was a big surprise but ended up deserving the win and not just riding wheels. How can any of you say the above wasn't super?!

dave_1

Raffles wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I think the Vuelta should be seen as as good as the other two Grand Tours now and moved to late April/May again. It's been a great race, though am left wondering how Decker is so poor off PEDs and Bert is as good as ever...I think Bert will not have stopped doping

innocent until proved guilty ?

I think Bert is as good as ever . Bert had dropped off some blood early season 2010 when he was glowing from clen use forgot it and so when he got a top up in july and then concocted the beef story to appeal, he indirectly proved he used two types of doping as his blood profile showed possible blood withdrawl/infusion and with the chances of clen being in EU beef..it's only fair we regard the man as a total liar worth no trust whatsoever. I think....after all that's been coming out the last few weeks and the fact EPO has a glow time of 19hrs or less and testosterone 6hrs or less, I find it hard to believe these guys are clean.

No_Ta_Doctor

Dave_1 wrote:

Raffles wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I think the Vuelta should be seen as as good as the other two Grand Tours now and moved to late April/May again. It's been a great race, though am left wondering how Decker is so poor off PEDs and Bert is as good as ever...I think Bert will not have stopped doping

innocent until proved guilty ?

I think Bert is as good as ever . Bert had dropped off some blood early season 2010 when he was glowing from clen use forgot it and so when he got a top up in july and then concocted the beef story to appeal, he indirectly proved he used two types of doping as his blood profile showed possible blood withdrawl/infusion and with the chances of clen being in EU beef..it's only fair we regard the man as a total liar worth no trust whatsoever. I think....after all that's been coming out the last few weeks and the fact EPO has a glow time of 19hrs or less and testosterone 6hrs or less, I find it hard to believe these guys are clean.

Fair summary.

mfin

No tA Doctor wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Raffles wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I think the Vuelta should be seen as as good as the other two Grand Tours now and moved to late April/May again. It's been a great race, though am left wondering how Decker is so poor off PEDs and Bert is as good as ever...I think Bert will not have stopped doping

innocent until proved guilty ?

I think Bert is as good as ever . Bert had dropped off some blood early season 2010 when he was glowing from clen use forgot it and so when he got a top up in july and then concocted the beef story to appeal, he indirectly proved he used two types of doping as his blood profile showed possible blood withdrawl/infusion and with the chances of clen being in EU beef..it's only fair we regard the man as a total liar worth no trust whatsoever. I think....after all that's been coming out the last few weeks and the fact EPO has a glow time of 19hrs or less and testosterone 6hrs or less, I find it hard to believe these guys are clean.

Fair summary.

Plus the Puerto blood, and all the dodgy connections etc.

deejay

iainf72 wrote:

deejay wrote:

Am I supposed to get excited about Evans. Well I never have.
In the Worlds he left his wheel sucking to chase after 2 domestic riders and then decides he can TT better than them.
Good Luck to him .

You don't know watch much cycling, do you?

Blooty cheek you have there Sonny.
I went to watch Van Looy and Simpson and until this year I have been a regular for 16 years at Liege-Bastogne, Fleche Wallonne and Het Volk.
I stopped going to the Tour de France because of too many English speaking Morons on the mountains.
I've had a taste of Marmaloda and Swiss cheese plus Dauphine.
I've organised cycle races in England (a 50 TT Champs) and officiated on Track, TT's, Road Races and Cyclo X.

Doh, I still don't get excited about Evans.
Maybe I could if he won Paris-Nice or a "Classic"
I couldn't get excited with another rider in the recent news who also won Fleche Wallonne.and a Worlds.

shipley

I've loved the Vuelta this year. The usual baren flat scenes have been replaced by more beautiful scenery which always helps.

Camera work needs more attention, HD would be helpful but their graphics are the best I've ever witnessed. I love the real time gap / gradient updates, quick flash of the names of the towns, stage profiles etc.

Shame we can't combine all the good parts of all 3 tours, eliminate all possibility of doping and relax the UCI rules on bike design regulations.

lloyd_bower

mtbboy101 wrote:

Mikey23 wrote:

Yup hugely more enjoyable in a bad old days kind of a way. I stopped watching when it became obvious that cheating is still very much alive and kicking

Indeed, lost interest when the 2 lead riders are unrepentant dopers. no faith that they are clean now so where is the fun.

Actually makes me quite angry...

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