Being sued after crash

bice

A month ago I took part in a sportif and had a crash. I was going down a half-mile, narrow country lane. At the bottom there was a bend, and I had braked to about 15-20mph.

I suddenly saw two cyclists: one stopped on the right hand side of the road, the other was scooter pedalling his bike across to him in the middle of the road. Together they blocked the road and I went into the guy in the middle.

We both got cut on knees and elbows, and his carbon frame had damage on the left rear wheel stay from BB to hub.

The two riders gave me to understand that they considered it my fault, but I was of the view that it was a lethal place to stop for a chat. The danger of the place was clear to all as other cyclists came down the hill.

They took my bike number. We all completed the sportif and in the car park at the end I gave my address and phone number. The bloke shook my hand and said accidents happen, I indicated the guy call me when he knew what the bike damage was.

Today I have received a letter from a lawyer, working on a conditional fee arrangement, claiming damages for the rider’s injuries (the cut to his knee has become infected) and, as yet unquantified, to the bike.

I have yet to see whether any of this is covered on household or other insurance policies.

This has cured me of any ambition to ride another sportif or charity ride.

navrig

Check the conditions of the entry to the Sportive. Sometimes insurance is provided.

Sounds like a scare tactic to get you to fix his bike when he knows he is in the wrong. I'd write back denying any liability pointing out that they had stopped in a stupid place in the full knowledge that other bikes would be passing at speed.

Karlos69

If you think it was his fault can you put a similar claim into him?

sungod

it's not clear from your description what happened...

did you go around the bend with no knowledge of what was there, and hit someone already in your path because you were going too fast to stop

or were you visible from a reasonable distance, but the other person didn't take reasonable care and as a result unexpectedly moved into your path giving you no escape

in the first case it'd be hard to blame anyone else, there could be anything around the corner

in the second case, i'd tend to blame the others

either way, if they're trying to sue you and if you genuinely feel that they were in the wrong, you may need to go find another no win no fee lawyer and return the favour

do not respond to the letter until you get expert advice, an internet forum is not a good place to obtain it!

alan_sherman

Interesting case - how long before this starts in racing? I watch with interest.

If you are a member of British Cycling or the CTC you will have 3rd party insurance. As someone else said - check with the organisers too for event cover.

However - isn't there a basic principle of stop in the distance you can see?

markos1963

Avoid at all costs getting into a claim/counterclaim arguement with his lawyer it'll just escalate into an expensive brawl. Write back stating that you are not at fault, his client was blocking the road for no good reason in a place that was unavoidable for you to miss him. You were travelling at a reasonable speed for the conditions on a roadworthy bike. Write no more than that and see what happens, he will threaten you with court action and hope you will pay up before going to court. It is unlikely he will proceed any further but if he does serve any summons then it is time to see a lawyer yourself.

buckmulligan

I'm in a similar situation after a minor shunt in my car and sympathise whole heartedly, especially given the potential lack of insurance. Definitely check with the event organisers as to whether insurance is provided, if so I should imagine that it will cover personal injury claims, but not the damages to the bike, which will notionally be at the owner's liability.

I presume you didn't take any details from anyone else at the event regarding their take on the events? I found out through the accident investigations guy that came to interview me about my car accident that every single tiny detail matters. Where they were positioned on the road, visibility ahead, road conditions, your speed etc etc etc.

Without any witnesses it's essentially his word against yours and to be honest if he admits to your version of events it doesn't sound like he's got much hope. But there's every chance his version of events will be markedly different to yours (to the point where it can be an entirely fictional tale that makes him seem like an innocent victim, as I found out!) so prepare yourself for the worst, but most importantly be honest and as detailed as possible with your lawyer and any claims investigators; accident investigators can smell bullsh!t a mile off and will make their feelings known if you try to pull a fast one.

For the future, British Cycling membership comes with free personal liability insurance although I'm not sure if this extends to events such as this. Good luck!

bigmat

If your version is correct, the guy sounds like a proper scumbag. I got taken out in a race earlier this year, £200 bars snapped, big gouge out of saddle, tape and rear mech scuffed potential damage to carbon frame - I just accepted it as one of those things that can happen. The other guy was totally to blame and admitted as such, but you just have to take these things on the chin. Got knocked off by a ped a few months ago, bars trashed again and wheels both buckled, fortunately the guy left details so I got him to pay for new bars / tape (sourced the cheapest decent ones I could find) and trueing front wheel. Rear was a write off but I figured it was on the way out anyway so didn't charge him for that. A few cuts and bruises but I just told myself it could have been far worse.

To go scurrying off to a lawyer and start claiming for injuries etc strikes me as pretty low behaviour.

giropaul

alan sherman wrote:

Interesting case - how long before this starts in racing? I watch with interest.

If you are a member of British Cycling or the CTC you will have 3rd party insurance. As someone else said - check with the organisers too for event cover.

However - isn't there a basic principle of stop in the distance you can see?

I think that British Cycling insurance specifically excludes claims by one rider against another in the same event.

MichaelW

Its not what happened, its what you can prove that matters.
I was rear ended in my car by another driver. We both agreed that i had been rear-ended. Passing policeman stopped and recorded details in his notebook.
Driver's insurance co denied that any incident had ever taken place. I was able to get copies of the notebook, prove that something had happened and they paid up.

ANY time you have a collision you should take photos of where you were, where they were, damage to you and them. Take 360 degree photo for context.
Everyone carries a camera phone so there is no excuse.

jgsi

alan sherman wrote:

Interesting case - how long before this starts in racing? I watch with interest.

If you are a member of British Cycling or the CTC you will have 3rd party insurance. As someone else said - check with the organisers too for event cover.

However - isn't there a basic principle of stop in the distance you can see?

No worries on the racing front...the litigious minded probably wouldnt be able to hack a road race.
At the moment racing and sportives are coming from very different perspectives...
If anyone knows different, I stand to be corrected of course...
racing incidents have and will always happen... have had my share this year... but you dust yourself off .. shake the bike down..shake hands with the other guy,.. (once the adrenaline has subsidied) ... get it repaired and get back on with it.
End of.

I'd be a bit cheesed off getting a letter like that.... is the lawyer one of those Eastender gangster types in sharp suits and and a line in posh cockney?

Rushmore

I'd just ignore it..

It's not worth taking to court..

jesus I hate this compensation culture we are living in today...

Did you get his address aswell? If so i'd pay him a visit and give him something to make a worthwhile claim about

what a dick...

photomcbeth

I really cant believe this. Is this common? You have a bike accident its tough, live with it. Do folk actually have insurance to cover them for cycling?

farrina

Courtesy of The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jul/02/bike-insurance-covered

I would suggest that if you are not a member of a cycling organisation (eg CTC or BCF) you check your household insurance. Some also include assistance for legal matters.

Can't see it being sensible just ignoring a solicitors letter (although would endorse the view that you take professional advice or at least a visit to Citizen's Advice).

Personally I joined the BCF as a ride member (circa £24 pa) specifically to provide TP cover (and free legal aid to sue culprits).

Good luck

Regards

Alan

verylonglegs

Unless you had to sign for receipt of the letter I'd chuck the first one in the bin and see what happens.

Defyand

Unless covered by the event organiser please speak with your household insurer. Do not chuck the letter in the bin as this could be seen by an insurer as prejudicing their position.

simon_masterson

sungod wrote:

it's not clear from your description what happened...

did you go around the bend with no knowledge of what was there, and hit someone already in your path because you were going too fast to stop

or were you visible from a reasonable distance, but the other person didn't take reasonable care and as a result unexpectedly moved into your path giving you no escape

in the first case it'd be hard to blame anyone else, there could be anything around the corner

in the second case, i'd tend to blame the others

either way, if they're trying to sue you and if you genuinely feel that they were in the wrong, you may need to go find another no win no fee lawyer and return the favour

do not respond to the letter until you get expert advice, an internet forum is not a good place to obtain it!

This.

That's awful though, and it saddens me. You should be able to cycle your bike in any capacity without worrying about being sued.

Gizmodo

giropaul wrote:

I think that British Cycling insurance specifically excludes claims by one rider against another in the same event.

I think you will find that British Cycling 3rd Party Insurance would cover this as it is not a race. See my post and email from BC in this other thread http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40020&t=12876089#p17845976
They would certainly give you free legal advice and be able to fight it for you.

Everyone should seriously consider taking out insurance. From another thread:

If you want it cheaper, join British Cycling - take the Ride membership for £24, use the TForL12 code for 50% off and pay by direct debit for another 10% off - makes it £10.80 for the year and gives you 10% off anything in Halfords (on top of any other offers)

Not to mention 12.5% off Wiggle.

Sorry, none of this helps the OP.

izza

In addition, the main scare tactic is an infected cut on the knee.

Surely if the cut was serious enough to get infected then he did not take reasonable care by finishing the sportive in a (probably) sweaty condition. I'd be getting advice on liability (as said by others), insurance cover and asking for a full breakdown of his actions after the event and reasons for not minimising the probability of infection by getting it treated asap.

bails87

Simon Masterson wrote:

sungod wrote:

it's not clear from your description what happened...

did you go around the bend with no knowledge of what was there, and hit someone already in your path because you were going too fast to stop

or were you visible from a reasonable distance, but the other person didn't take reasonable care and as a result unexpectedly moved into your path giving you no escape

in the first case it'd be hard to blame anyone else, there could be anything around the corner

in the second case, i'd tend to blame the others

either way, if they're trying to sue you and if you genuinely feel that they were in the wrong, you may need to go find another no win no fee lawyer and return the favour

do not respond to the letter until you get expert advice, an internet forum is not a good place to obtain it!

This.

That's awful though, and it saddens me. You should be able to cycle your bike in any capacity without worrying about being sued.

Why? If you cause an accident that leads to injury/damage/loss to someone else, why should you be immune from paying for the damage just because you're on a bike?

FWIW, in this case, if the guy was standing in the road and you rode into him then the OP has got to accept a lot of responsibility. Don't ride beyond your visible stopping distance. If he ran into the road in front of the OP then it's probably not the OPs fault. But as said, it's about what can be proven.

Monty Dog

I'm gonna say this is 50/50 and that either party is at fault - the claimant for stopping in the middle of the road and the OP for not riding with sufficient care and attention, particularly in a sportive where there is such a range of abilities. I do find it worrying with this 'claim' culture - in racing, crashing is an accepted consequence of riding fast and close.

rsands

the fact he used a no win no fee type lawyer just shows he is trying his luck. tell them to sling their hook. its your word against his and the courts would have no interest in it as unless there are multiple witnesses it wont go far.

Would people ever man up....his cut got infected...."awk bless"....post him a teddy bear to keep it company. should have got it dressed properly. Makes you mad....its a country of claim claim claim. Its a cut, why do some think the world owes them everything in pound notes

marz

Don't reply or at least do not discuss blame. As far as understand it you both voluntarily signed up for the sportif and therefore both accepted the risk in riding in such a group event.
Did you have to sign a wavier before the ride?