Shimano ST-2300 STI Shifters - Is this normal?

ben.harris

Hi - first post here.

I've just bought my first road bike - a B'Twin Triban 3, and went out for my first 15 mile ride on it at the weekend. However, having spent a bit of time today reading how the Shimano ST-2300 STI shifters are supposed to work, I'm not convinced mine are operating correctly.

The shifter for the front derailleur is the one I'm not sure about. From what I can gather, there should be 'trim' positions available. I don't seem to be able to get any of the trim positions to 'stick' though - it just passes straight through them and onto the next cog. I'm going to try and draw what is happening below - hopefully it'll make sense!

Action             Shifter indicator        Gear selected
Start position     [      |]                30 tooth cog
Operate lever      [    |  ]                30 tooth cog
Operate lever      [  |    ]                39 tooth cog
Operate lever      [|      ]                50 tooth cog
Press button       [ |     ]                50 tooth cog
Release button     [  |    ]                39 tooth cog
Press button       [   |   ]                39 tooth cog
Release button     [      |]                30 tooth cog

The bit which I'm not sure is operating correctly is the "push button, release button" movement. Should I need to keep my finger held on the button to remain in these 'trim' positions? I get the impression that the button should act like a 2-stage button with stage 1 being the trim position and then pushing it a bit further to stage 2 being the gear change (kind of like a camera does when you half-press the button to focus before fully pressing to open the shutter). Mine doesn't seem to be working like this though - unless I keep my finger held on the button, it moves straight to the next cog.

Is this how it's designed to work and I'm just not understanding it properly, or do I have a faulty shifter?

Any advice would be appreciated! - It's a 130 mile round trip for me to take it back to Decathlon (possibly to be told that's how it's supposed to work!), so I thought I'd ask here, first.

nbuuifx

sounds normal to me - what are you wanting to achieve with the 'trim' positions?

ie - what are you expecting to happen?

ben.harris

Well, I was reading through the documentation (here) on the Shimano website and it said:

Trimming (noise prevention operation) < ST-2300 >
If the chain is on the large front chainwheel and the larger rear sprocket, the chain will rub in the front derailleur
plate, producing a characteristic noise. When this happens, press lever b lightly (to the point where it clicks); this causes the front derailleur to move slightly towards the smaller chainwheel, thereby eliminating the noise.

My shifter doesn't seem to have any difference in operation if I press the button on the shifter (lever b) lightly or hard. As soon as the button engages, it moves to the position where the chain stops catching on the front derailleur (as described above). However, I was assuming that it will stay there once I let go, but when I let go, it makes a second click and moves on further and pulling the chain back onto the middle cog.

Because of the bit in the Shimano instructions that mention 'press the lever lightly' made me think there might be 2 stages to the shift and it seems (to me!) really daft and impractical to offer a position that stops the chain from catching on the derailleur under certain gear combinations, but to only work while the lever is being held down (which is how mine seems to operate, but isn't how i'd interpreted their instructions).

This is my first road bike though and I've never used STI shifters before. If this is how they're supposed to work, then that's fine. I just wasn't sure and didn't think it seemed right.

Ben.

ineedalager

I have a Spesh Allez with ST2300 and mine works exactly like your quote however if you press to hard in will change to the 39 ring. Also it works going back up in to the big ring when you start changing back up the gears when on the small front ring you will here the front deraillieur start to rub again. Press the brake lever to move the the deraillieur over again to stop the noise.

You should have 2 clicks on the thumb lever and 2 clicks on the brake/gear lever and watch the front deraillieur when off the bike to see if it moves twice. I have a workshop bike stand and a turbo trainer so you can see what's happening a lot easier.

ben.harris

Just for reference, this is the 'button' I'm referring to:



I do get two audible clicks. The first click happens when I press the button in and the second happens when I release the button. They both happen within the same press/release of the button:

Press the button down (and hold button), hear click. See derailleur move to trim position and 'chain noise' stops. Keep holding button.

Release button, hear second click. See derailleur move further and chain moves to middle cog.

Does yours differ in operation depending on if you press the button hard or soft? I'm finding that regardless of how hard/soft I press it, I always get the trim, followed straight away by the gear change, all within the same press and release of the button. Unless I hold my finger on the button, it doesn't stay in the trim position.

ineedalager

That's the button it refered to as the thumb lever or switch on here.
It sounds like your doing it wrong there is no need to hold the button just a short light press and release should give you trim postion. Another slightly harder press and release should change it to the smaller front ring.

If you press and hold you will go straight through the trim postion to a full change from big ring to small front ring.

Lookyhere

Whether the trim "click" moves the FD or not is down to cable tension and the outer/inner limit screws.
So, i guess that the fd isnt setup as per shimano instructions?
On my daughters Tiagra and my Ultegra setup, this is the case and its just a matter of setting the inner and outter clearances and the limit screws - the Tech Docs shows how to do this and its really easy to do.

ben.harris

Ah - that makes sense. I was assuming it was the shifter and hadn't even considered the derailleur itself. I've just had a look at the tech docs, so will take a look at it this evening and report back. Cheers! :-)

Mikey23

interesting. i too have an st2300 on a giant defy and found it all quite baffling. i now find it quite difficult to change into my bigset and tend to stay in it most of the time

ben.harris

Well I've just followed the setup instructions from Shimano's tech docs and it hasn't made any difference

I'm still not convinced it's working properly. Both the shifter document and the FD document both say to press the shift thumb lever 'lightly' to move into the trim positions. No matter how gently I press the thumb lever, I don't seem to have any difference in operation regardless of if I press it lightly or not. I always get two clicks - one at the bottom end of the thumb lever's travel that moves into the trim position, and another click straight away as I release which moves onto the next sized down cog. I suspect I'm supposed to get the first click before I reach the bottom of the thumb lever's travel, allowing me to release the thumb lever and remain in the trim position.

I've recorded a video of the shifter operation. At this point, the shift cable is disconnected from the FD, as I have no way of turning the crank to stop the FD hitting the chain whilst recording the video, but I get exactly the same results like this (on the shifter display) as I did after following the Shimano instructions for setting up the FD with the cable connected. Hopefully you'll be able to see what I mean about there being no 'press thumb lever lightly' capability.

Effectively, I have 4 indicated shifter positions I can get the shifter to 'stop' in when moving from small --> medium --> large cogs (which I think is correct). However, I only have 3 indicated shifter positions I can get the shifter to 'stop' in when moving from large --> medium --> small cogs, and I think that I should be able to 'stop' in 5 if the trim positions were working properly.

Video of shifter operation here:
http://youtu.be/VQvBLUsOB9A

Is this how it's supposed to work and I'm making a fuss over nothing, or do I actually have a problem and should take it back!?

Mikey23

Whizz it down to the bike shop and get them to check it out

ben.harris

I would, but it's a 130 mile round trip for me to take it back to my nearest Decathlon store (where I bought it), which is why I thought I should try and find out how other people's worked, before taking it back for them to look at. I made a special trip there to buy it last weekend. I'm also not sure how helpful my LBS will be, since it's a new bike which I haven't bought from them.

Gizmodo

ben.harris wrote:

I would, but it's a 130 mile round trip for me to take it back to my nearest Decathlon store (where I bought it), which is why I thought I should try and find out how other people's worked, before taking it back for them to look at. I made a special trip there to buy it last weekend. I'm also not sure how helpful my LBS will be, since it's a new bike which I haven't bought from them.

Your local bike shop should be very happy to start a good relationship with you as you may become a loyal customer. They see loads of Boardmans bought from Halfords but people don't trust Halfords staff to work on them.

Mine charges £15 to index gears.

ineedalager

I have two bikes with ST2300 the Allez which is a double left gear lever and was set up when I bought my bike and my carbon framed bike I built myself which has a triple left shifter like you show in the video.
I took me ages to set up the front deraillieur using a triple to get the trim function working correctly because each click of the thumb lever appears to be a full gear change because in designed for a triple front crankset and I am running a compact double. This maybe your probelm.

I think the trim function is only for a double front gear lever to get a triple to do the same takes careful adjustment.

Lookyhere

Might be wide of the mark here but if you ve a triple then its the st-2303 levers you have? in which case the big big senerio you quoted is for the 2300 lever? and the bit you should look at is this:
< ST-2303 / ST-2300 >
If the chain is on the smallest front chainring and a smaller
rear sprocket, the chain will rub in the front derailleur
plate, producing a characteristic noise.When this
happens, press lever a lightly (to the point where it
clicks); this causes the front derailleur to move slightly
towards the larger chainring, thereby eliminating the noise.

Seems to me that there isnt a trim on the 2303 sti for outer chain ring.

ben.harris

Thanks Lookyhere - I think you've sussed it. I was going from the specs for the bike on the Decathlon website which listed it as a Shimano ST-2300 groupset. I hadn't realised I actually have the ST-2303 shifters. Reading through the ST-2303 section, I think that is indeed how mine's working. Many thanks for noticing this - you've saved me a long and potentially unnecessary trip back to the shop!

I think what also didn't help, is I have the SORA front derailleur and I've just realised the Shimano instructions for setting this up are referencing the ST-3400 shifters, which seem to have a trim function that works slightly differently again!

tobyinhelsinki

I found this discussion by google whilst trying to work out how to set up my ST-3400 front shifter better, and can confirm it has the trimming functioning. It might be a related problem but Shimano seem to say these shifters are compatible with either a double or triple chainset. I have a double on my Boardman CX Comp and its incredibly fiddly to work out how to index the front mech correctly because of the trim positions and what seems to be "space" in the shifters movement to allow for a third cog that my bike doesn't have! So I guess you are going to get more 'trim' possibilities with a double chainset than with a triple.

Anyway, hope you got yours running smoothly!

Mikey23

aah i get it now. couldnt understand how it is supposed to work and why it is so pigging difficult sometimes to get into the big ring. i have a compact. explained!

karlth

Lookyhere wrote:

Might be wide of the mark here but if you ve a triple then its the st-2303 levers you have? in which case the big big senerio you quoted is for the 2300 lever? and the bit you should look at is this:
< ST-2303 / ST-2300 >
If the chain is on the smallest front chainring and a smaller
rear sprocket, the chain will rub in the front derailleur
plate, producing a characteristic noise.When this
happens, press lever a lightly (to the point where it
clicks); this causes the front derailleur to move slightly
towards the larger chainring, thereby eliminating the noise.

Seems to me that there isnt a trim on the 2303 sti for outer chain ring.

Shame. I have the Sport 1 which has the same gearing and seldom use the granny; I could really use a trim between the large and middle chainwheels though

Having said that, pumping the numbers into St Sheldon of Brown's gear calculator, at 80rpm there are some very useful gears on the granny for some of the sustained 5-10%ers around here which I creep up significantly below 10mph. Perhaps I should stop trying to be macho "we didn't have a granny when I were a lad so I can't need one" and reflect on the fact that plenty of folks who'd sneer at a triple are running 50/34 against 12-28 and have ratios just as low as mine

It's speed that matters, not the ratio. 5mph at 40rpm is not better than 6mph at 70rpm just because the former is in a stiffer gear.

At on the fact that when I were a lad I sometimes had to get off and walk. Only done that once in over two years of having the Sport 1, and that was the last bit of Winnats where I couldn't get started again after a stop for oxygen.