Club run crash etiquette.

Proff

I'm very new to club riding and after an incident that happened yesterday I just wondered about something.
If somebody crashes, clearly made a riding mistake, and brings someone else down. Is it polite to offer to contribute to the repair of the other riders bike repairs, or is it generally taken that you just sort yourself out?
Thanks

u05harrisb

i think it depends upon the situation. it it absolutly obviously you and it was not a genuine mistake then yes. but then again if happens and it were a result of somthing happening to you i.e. slowing etc, then not always depends on how you feel and the seriousness i guess. accidents happen and as long as people understand that then its fine most of the time. so depends on the person the thing broken or damaged etc. bit off an odd one. of the crashs ive seen its mostly a sorry and an offer to pay occasionally but normally the other person will just sort it out themself but saying that its never been anything serious. plus its a bit unfair to make sombody with no money pay for a new set of carbon tubs haha

dashik

Well at the moment I'm not working as my partners I'll so I could just about afford my own bike and have insurance for that. If I was fit enough to ride with a club then the op's point would be enough to stop me.

No way would I be falling out with people in a club over not being able to pay for the repair to someones £5k carbon special.

ugo.santalucia

It is a problem... especially since people ride bikes worth thousands... my view is that accidents happen and it's often very difficult to point the finger at someone's mistake.
Ride with people of similar experience and avoid riding very expensive equipment if you expect others to cover your bills when you go down... that is sensible riding etiquette

Proff

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It is a problem... especially since people ride bikes worth thousands... my view is that accidents happen and it's often very difficult to point the finger at someone's mistake.
Ride with people of similar experience and avoid riding very expensive equipment if you expect others to cover your bills when you go down... that is sensible riding etiquette

I agree totally. I'm just a bit surprised that it is not written into club rules that you ride at your own risk.
From life experience, there is always somebody that will maybe not see it that way and may pursue you for a wad of cash if you happen to bring them down with you.
Better get signed up to British Cycling and get my third party cover!!

slowbike

Don't clubs expect you to hold 3rd party insurance as a minimum?

After all, what are you going to do when you accidentally wipe out the club champion causing lifelong disability - there will be a large bill for all the associated care required ...

Accidents do happen and if you are the cause of the accident then I feel you should be prepared to foot the bill ... even if the offer isn't taken up...
Yup - I've got British Cycling membership to give me the 3rd party cover... I could replace my own bike out of my pocket - but some of the wheels ridden cost more than my whole bike!

rick_chasey

Your bike your responsibility by and large in my experience.

Only within reason though.

teisetrotter

Slowbike wrote:

Don't clubs expect you to hold 3rd party insurance as a minimum?

After all, what are you going to do when you accidentally wipe out the club champion causing lifelong disability - there will be a large bill for all the associated care required ...

Accidents do happen and if you are the cause of the accident then I feel you should be prepared to foot the bill ... even if the offer isn't taken up...
Yup - I've got British Cycling membership to give me the 3rd party cover... I could replace my own bike out of my pocket - but some of the wheels ridden cost more than my whole bike!

Many do or are starting to insist on British Cycling membership which has cover as part of the membership. If I were you I'd join their ride membership really is pennies.

Gizmodo

My club fees include CTC membership for their 3rd party insurance, so all members are covered for any damage/injury they might cause to others whether on a club ride or not.

Everyone should have 3rd party insurance, whether riding in a group or not. From another thread:

If you want it cheaper, join British Cycling - take the Ride membership for £24, use the TForL12 code for 50% off and pay by direct debit for another 10% off - makes it £10.80 for the year and gives you 10% off anything in Halfords (on top of any other offers)

Not to mention 12.5% off Wiggle.

sub55

The whole scenario has been tested in law and it was effectively thrown out . No member of the group has any legal liability towards any other member of the group. The judges comments were if i remember rightly something like, if you choose to ride that close together , you have to accept the inevitable will happen at some point.
On a slightly different note BC third party insurance , not entirely convinced it covers you against other cyclists in the same group. It certainly doesn't in a race situation .

Monty Dog

If someone chooses to turn up a club ride on a £10k bike and it gets damaged in a crash, that's there look out IMO. If you're worried about damaging your bike, ride a steel-framed fixed gear bike. The general rule is only ride what you can afford to crash, otherwise if you're worried, ride on your own.

Gizmodo

sub55 wrote:

On a slightly different note BC third party insurance , not entirely convinced it covers you against other cyclists in the same group. It certainly doesn't in a race situation.

You might be right, I'm not an insurance expert, but reading their Details page (http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership/article/memst-Third-Party-Liability-Insurance-0) they list some exclusions, including as you say racing, but riding in a group on a social ride is not one of them.

EDIT: Had a reply from British Cycling regarding their insurance.

The third party liability insurance which is provided as a benefit to our Race Gold, Race Silver and Ride memberships covers non-competitive, social, leisure and utility cycling.  Race Gold and Race Silver members are also covered whilst taking part in competitive cycling events held under the auspices of British Cycling or other cycling organisations whose rules and regulations (including Event Safety Guidelines) are acceptable to British Cycling.
 
The insurance covers your legal liability for damages, legal costs and expenses in the event of negligence only and does not cover deliberate acts.  Also excluded is business use, one competitor against another in a cycle race or time trial, any liability directly or indirectly caused to a member’s immediate family and claims against members who are not resident in Great Britain, Northern Ireland, Isle of Man or Channel Islands.
 
Therefore, Rider to rider and member to member claims are not excluded under our third party liability insurance in respect of club social rides.  However, the individual who is wishing to pursue a claim must be able to prove that the ‘third party’ has been negligent.  This will depend upon the exact circumstances of any incident.

schweiz

If you can afford to buy it, you can afford to fix it!

The only exception would be if the damage was deliberate, but an accident is just that!

bobtbuilder

Some really interesting views posted here. Just wondering why (devil's advocate) whether the same opinions would prevail if we were motorbike or car enthusiasts out on a club ride / drive? If not, why not? Is it because insurance is compulsory for motor vehicles but not for bicycles or some other reason?

Back on topic, I would be extremely p*ssed off if a club rider's attention / poor bike handling damaged my bike and I was left to foot the bill. This wouldn't happen if I was driving (see first point) but seems socially acceptable when cycling.

slowbike

bobtbuilder wrote:

Some really interesting views posted here. Just wondering why (devil's advocate) whether the same opinions would prevail if we were motorbike or car enthusiasts out on a club ride / drive? If not, why not? Is it because insurance is compulsory for motor vehicles but not for bicycles or some other reason?

Back on topic, I would be extremely p*ssed off if a club rider's attention / poor bike handling damaged my bike and I was left to foot the bill. This wouldn't happen if I was driving (see first point) but seems socially acceptable when cycling.

But you don't drive in close proximity in a car - no idea about bikers, but they're not quite so close as a group of cyclists ...
If you're willing to ride in a group that doesn't give you time to react then I think you should take at least some of the "blame" ...

jibberjim

bobtbuilder wrote:

Some really interesting views posted here. Just wondering why (devil's advocate) whether the same opinions would prevail if we were motorbike or car enthusiasts out on a club ride / drive? If not, why not? Is it because insurance is compulsory for motor vehicles but not for bicycles or some other reason?

The reason is almost certainly because it's not safe for you to ride close to another rider, and by doing so you are accepting the risk of an accident. So the contributory negligence of your actions are what's driving the opinions here (and as noted this was of course tested in (Scottish) court.) I don't think anyone would suggest different in a similar car/bike situation, but such situations would be limited to track days and similar as the actions on the open road are not realistically likely to happen.