Wonderful Wonderful Copenhagen

seataltea

I went last year but it seems the city is to become even more cycle friendly.

http://www.npr.org/2012/09/01/160386904 ... ostpopular

It is a constant disappointment to me that our politicians do not have the same vision.

JamesB5446

Denmark and Holland really are switched on when it comes to cycling infrastructure.

http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/ is a good blog about cycling in Holland.

BelgianBeerGeek

This is all interesting stuff. One of the really interesting bits is that all the politicians support it.
I like the bit about them being "serious"! I have toured through Holland, and cos it's Holland it is very urban, they do not always take too kindly to idiot tourists meandering around in front of them! But they do use these routes as a form of transport and do not hang about.
I also drove through Copenhagen years ago and the amount of cyclists was incredible. The pay-off is that if you do have to drive there is no real traffic to contend with.

bails87

Danish Cycle Highway:


British Cycle SUPERHighway:


It would be funny if it wasn't killing people....

Glasgow Calum

Denmark and Holland are both incredibly flat. That is why cycling has taken such a huge role there, people don't have to break a sweat getting to and from work. Nothing wrong with breaking a sweat but people are too lazy. Even if we provided exactly the same level of cycling infrastructure and change peoples mindsets towards cycling, far fewer than Denmark and Holland would do it here because hills are just too much (or perceived to be too much) by many. Picture a charming 90 year old Dutch man with the old wicker basket on his bike who pootles along at 2mph with a flat cap on. Now picture him standing up on his bike, red in the face taking a 45 degree incline! haha. not going to happen.

JamesB5446

No, cycling has taken a huge role there because they have huge investment in cycling infrastructure.
This is a simple fact.

Here is another fact, most of the UK is not at a 45 degree slope.

Glasgow Calum

JamesB5446 wrote:

No, cycling has taken a huge role there because they have huge investment in cycling infrastructure.
This is a simple fact.

Here is another fact, most of the UK is not at a 45 degree slope.

I'm sorry but I disagree (or more specifically, your point is true but is only half the story)
The reason there was and is a huge investment in the cycling infrastructure is because there was already a huge interest in cycling from the word go. The reason there was interest in cycling there and not here back when bike first appeared on the scene is 1 simple reason. There is flat, here is not. people like cycling, people don't like cycling uphills simple.

Most of the UK is not on a 45 degree slope correct. (not sure what that point was but OK).

Basically over the last 10-20 years cycling has "taken off" in the UK as a valid commuting tool. Only now (with our crappy roads already in place) are we trying (pathetically might I add) to integrate cyclists into the road network. Denmark and holland have never had this problem because they have had many many cyclist using their streets since the advent of the bicycle and have built their roads around that knowledge.

Its an uphill battle for the UK (pardon the pun) but short of demolishing every road in every town and building it all again, I just dont see how the UK can possible compete with countries like Denmark and Holland that already have it so firmly established in their culture.

But I completely agree that the tiny narrow "taxi bus cycle death lanes" are not the answer.

JamesB5446

You're partly right. But the numbers of people cycling shot up when they started planning decent infrastructure for them.
They haven't built their roads around bikes since the advent of cycling like you say, they really only started in the 70s.

You don't need to demolish every road, just make some of them not for cars. It would be easy to stop cars using most town centres. It would be easy to stop residential areas being used as through routes for motorists.

As for hills - http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/20 ... cling.html

Glasgow Calum

JamesB5446 wrote:

You're partly right. But the numbers of people cycling shot up when they started planning decent infrastructure for them.
They haven't built their roads around bikes since the advent of cycling like you say, they really only started in the 70s.

You don't need to demolish every road, just make some of them not for cars. It would be easy to stop cars using most town centres. It would be easy to stop residential areas being used as through routes for motorists.

As for hills - http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/20 ... cling.html

Yeah, I think we are both partly right.
Thats a very interesting article. I suppose its true, when I was in Bergen/Norway recently, there were loads of bikes, tons, and its far from flat!
And they have much harsher winters than us but they are still keen.

TheEnglishman

The last time I was in Bergen it had rained for 90 days, straight. It's worse than Scotland for cycling in the rain.

And I'm in Amsterdam for a couple of weeks and I brought my Brompton over. Today's run around the city was kinda scary as there's Trams, cars, other cycles, mopeds, TRAMS and pedrestrians coming from all over the place. I just don't know how people don't get squashed. And no one wears a helmet. If I hadn't had 4 rather good beers I'd look up accident statistics between Amsterdam and London. The mad thing is there's just no road rage over here. Everyone just gets on with it. I'm guessing Copenhagen is the same in that it's all kinda crazy, but it works.

pdw

Glasgow Calum wrote:

I'm sorry but I disagree (or more specifically, your point is true but is only half the story)
The reason there was and is a huge investment in the cycling infrastructure is because there was already a huge interest in cycling from the word go. The reason there was interest in cycling there and not here back when bike first appeared on the scene is 1 simple reason. There is flat, here is not. people like cycling, people don't like cycling uphills simple.

I'm not sure when you consider the "word go" to be. The key factor in the investment in Dutch infrastructure was the response to widespread adoption of cars, resulting in deliberate political decisions in the 1970s. You might want to have a look at the video on this post:

http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2011/10/how-dutch-got-their-cycling.html

It is true that cycle usage in the Netherlands was already much higher than the UK when those decisions were being made - see http://drawingrings.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/historic-cycling-rates-in-netherlands.html but I think the reasons for it are rather more complicated than mere geography.

Glasgow Calum

pdw wrote:

Glasgow Calum wrote:

I'm sorry but I disagree (or more specifically, your point is true but is only half the story)
The reason there was and is a huge investment in the cycling infrastructure is because there was already a huge interest in cycling from the word go. The reason there was interest in cycling there and not here back when bike first appeared on the scene is 1 simple reason. There is flat, here is not. people like cycling, people don't like cycling uphills simple.

You might want to have a look at the video on this post:

http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2011/10/how-dutch-got-their-cycling.html

It's a good video but to be quite honest...opens with a blatant lie...lol.
"The Netherlands has the worlds largest number of cyclists"

Number of bicycles by country
China = ~500,000,000
Japan = ~72,540,000
Germany = ~62,000,000
and so on and so on until you reach
Netherlands = ~16,500,000

pdw

True, but change "largest number" to the rather more relevant "highest proportion" and I believe it's accurate...

bails87

No-one has ever said to me, when I tell them I cycle to work, "but how do you get up the hills?". The first question is "Isn't it dangerous?", the second is "What do you do when it rains?".

Given my experience when I've taken friends/family out for rides, most people don't realise there are hills, because they drive up them without noticing. they get on a bike and say "I've never noticed that slope before" but it doesn't put them off.

The steepest street in England is Hardknott Pass, which approaches 1 in 3 or 33%, not sure about the rest of the UK, but the areas where most people live in England aren't very hilly.