Cotic X or Genesis Croix de Fer ?

JamesB
JamesB Posts: 1,184
edited April 2013 in Road buying advice
Am looking at either above two for winter / training use to be fitted with mechanical discs; have noted that roadcc gives a poor mark to the Cotic X carbon fork :( but if I used a Kinesis carbon disc fork with either bike?

Cotic X seems more costly, but maybe it is a better ride; CdeFer only in white so is that a good choice for a winter frame ??

To use with 25 / 28 road tyres, may occasionally use off road with CX tyres

any thoughts from users of either much appreciated

ta :)

Comments

  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Hi - given the Croix der Fer's weight, you might want to consider the CdF as well? http://road.cc/content/review/61480-genesis-cdf

    Still on the heavy side I'm sure, but not so much so. Reynolds 520 (not 725 as the Croix de Fer) and Sora (not Tiagra), but still with discs and imo much better colour ie blue. But if you're going to go for a Croix de Fer, this year's white offering is much nicer than 2013 boring old black imo .... why they can't brighten the thing up, I don't know ....
  • JamesB
    JamesB Posts: 1,184
    CdF is a small possibility but weight seems to be an issue :( ---one reason interested in Cotic X is their claim to an own brand 853 type wieght tubing, which I`d have though would bring their frame weight to sub 4 lb maybe ? CdF is going to be nearer 5.5 lb I expect, and as bike may get used more than just winter (as with my current winter bike which has become an all year use bike except when weather is decent) if I end up liking it too much I`d be a bit weight weenie with it........
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Hi James,

    I am the happy owner of a Croix de Fer since 2010... for road use, you might want to consider an upgrade to the wheels, with which you can easily shed one full Kg... yes, the stock ones are stones and sluggish too as the hubs are rubbish... other than that, good bike and now that it comes in slate colour even better, as white was never a good idea.
    Weight... as it arrived it was just shy of 13 Kg... went down to 12.5 with road tyres and now it's 10.6 with hand built wheels (Ambrosio rims on Novatec 7111/712 hubs, DB spokes) and an oldish 9 speed Campagnolo groupset...
    left the forum March 2023
  • JamesB
    JamesB Posts: 1,184
    and now it's 10.6

    is that with the standard steel fork too? and is the Kinesis carbon fork a possibility or woudl brake judder be an issue?

    General plan is transfer Campg Centaur kit, bars etc off existing winter bike (which is a Van Nic Yukon, really nice ride bike weight with mudguards etc c 9.5 kg), but roads now so crappy every ride bike and esp the rims are plastered in muck, brake grinding paste mess --let alone issues stopping with rim brakes :( ) so would be quite a light build and get some wheels at 1.9kg ish set
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Hi James,

    I am the happy owner of a Croix de Fer since 2010... for road use, you might want to consider an upgrade to the wheels, with which you can easily shed one full Kg... yes, the stock ones are stones and sluggish too as the hubs are rubbish... other than that, good bike and now that it comes in slate colour even better, as white was never a good idea.
    Weight... as it arrived it was just shy of 13 Kg... went down to 12.5 with road tyres and now it's 10.6 with hand built wheels (Ambrosio rims on Novatec 7111/712 hubs, DB spokes) and an oldish 9 speed Campagnolo groupset...
    I'd love one of these but I don't understand why they're so heavy. The new 'slate' colour imo is so damn dull, for their 'flagship' cross bike I would like to see these 'lightened and brightened'. The Alfine is a lovely orange and the CdF that nice blue. Modifications such as yours are always an improvement of course, but as far as cost goes, is it worth it?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    JamesB wrote:
    and now it's 10.6

    is that with the standard steel fork too? and is the Kinesis carbon fork a possibility or woudl brake judder be an issue?

    General plan is transfer Campg Centaur kit, bars etc off existing winter bike (which is a Van Nic Yukon, really nice ride bike weight with mudguards etc c 9.5 kg), but roads now so crappy every ride bike and esp the rims are plastered in muck, brake grinding paste mess --let alone issues stopping with rim brakes :( ) so would be quite a light build and get some wheels at 1.9kg ish set

    With the steel fork, yes... no point in changing it, that fork is the bike's strength... you can transfer all the Campg kit no problem and now I can also build disc wheels with Campagnolo freehub, which was always a bit of a problem... my wheels are 1.8 Kg
    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    giant man wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Hi James,

    I am the happy owner of a Croix de Fer since 2010... for road use, you might want to consider an upgrade to the wheels, with which you can easily shed one full Kg... yes, the stock ones are stones and sluggish too as the hubs are rubbish... other than that, good bike and now that it comes in slate colour even better, as white was never a good idea.
    Weight... as it arrived it was just shy of 13 Kg... went down to 12.5 with road tyres and now it's 10.6 with hand built wheels (Ambrosio rims on Novatec 7111/712 hubs, DB spokes) and an oldish 9 speed Campagnolo groupset...
    I'd love one of these but I don't understand why they're so heavy. The new 'slate' colour imo is so damn dull, for their 'flagship' cross bike I would like to see these 'lightened and brightened'. The Alfine is a lovely orange and the CdF that nice blue. Modifications such as yours are always an improvement of course, but as far as cost goes, is it worth it?

    The Campagnolo upgrade is definitively not worth money wise, but I had some parts coming from another bike which I sold in bits... as for the wheels, yes, they are worth it, as the stock ones are simply too heavy for long distance... I think they weigh not far from 3 Kg and, as saod, the hubs were utter garbage. My daily commute is 13 miles each way and I use the bike at weekends too for 40-60 milers, often hilly. It's done Paris Roubaix and Flanders, been up Dunkery Beacon and Winnats pass, so I think it did deserve some decent wheels.
    I like the slate colour, I also like the orange of the day one and the blue... infact I like most colours... :D
    left the forum March 2023
  • bobinski
    bobinski Posts: 570
    I considered the 2 frames you are considering and ended up choosing this...

    http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/products/ ... ght/prosix

    as a winter commuter/do it all bike built up with Alfine hub gears etc.

    It replaced an On One frame and is lighter and gives a noticeable smoother ride. No issues with the fork and I am running bb7's.
  • JamesB
    JamesB Posts: 1,184
    Looks interesting (although I`m on the weight top limit :( , any particular reasons why you went for an Al frame when, as with me, you were looking down teh steel route ?
  • styxd
    styxd Posts: 3,234
    any particular reasons why you went for an Al frame

    Lighter and stiffer innit! Depending on how you like to ride, this could be a good thing.

    Have you had a look at all the other contenders - Planet X for example? Kaffenback, Unle John and Dirty Disco
  • bobinski
    bobinski Posts: 570
    JamesB wrote:
    Looks interesting (although I`m on the weight top limit :( , any particular reasons why you went for an Al frame when, as with me, you were looking down teh steel route ?

    I had the on one pompi frame, probably a little too small for me, and it was fine when the road was smooth but anything less than smooth and the ride was too harsh. That was at 80-90 psi on 25mm conti gators. I tried an Orange Cde F. Nice ride, not as harsh but sill quite heavy. Once you factor in the Alfine hub and having a dynamo hub on the front things get quite heavy so after a great review elsewhere decided to go with the Kinesis. Its is notably lighter and smoother, especially through the front. That said lots of people love the Pompetamine frame and if you want one in a medium let me know :)
  • JamesB
    JamesB Posts: 1,184
    Bit of an update for anyone interested. :)

    Have now riden 2 000 miles on Cotic X; has been built up now with carbon forks (Carbon Cycles Exotic disc specific) replacing steel as I found steel a bit harsh. Wheels are handbuilt Harry Rowlands Open Pros onto Novatec hubs with discs and Campag freehub swop, Conti 4 seasons 25mm @ 90-100 psi . Build weight with full mudguards is near 12 kg. Campag centaur / veloce bits

    Ride wise it runs very steadily and is a good solid feeling bike, not exciting ride but suits purposes of a winter / just riding bike. The Avid BB5 are just great, they are reliable, work in all conditions and have needed minimal adjustments, sometimes need a little tweak after putting wheel back in, but no more. I`ve found it comfortable enough too for long rides, 100km ++; needed to add in a couple bottle cage DMR clips on seat tube as braze ons for bottle cages are frankly weird sitings :(

    Not as quite as comfortable running as my Van Nic but I think a lot that will be due to steel v Ti and fact that rear seat stays into a wishbone arrangement. Overall though happy with choice :)

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