Downhill bikes

DodgeT

Following on from this little snippet out of a workshop thread;

See, i've got a 2011 enduro expert and a C456 with 150mm revs. Thing is, they're too similar capability wise. My usual riding is places like Lee Quarry, Gisburn, Llandegla, Peaks, not to mention lots of playing around on jumps n stuff and to be fair, they both are excellent in all those places.
More recently, i've started to do a lot more DH riding, not crazy stuff, but love Stile Cop, loved Antur Stiniog and I want to do more of this kind of riding. So I thought the best plan would be to make some slight changes to the enduro (like the HA / offset bushes) to make it a bit more suitable for DH stuff.
But then I think, why make the enduro into a DH machine, when it'll never be a proper DH machine. So, I reckon the most sensible thing would be to sell the C456, keep the enduro as the multi purpose tool it is and then get a proper DH bike for doing, well, DH.

I'm going to be trawling the likes of ebay, pinkbike and here of course for a 2nd hand DH bike

Don't know too much about them other than I want a large frame, 8" of travel and it to be fairly user friendly, ie I don't want to get something that turns out you need to be named Atherton in able to ride it - like race spec bikes I guess.

Been looking at;

Trek session
Giant Glory
Spesh Status
Mondraker summon

Any reason to go with one type more than the other, or generally, are they going to be pretty similar ridewise for an introduction to DH?

Any others I should be considering? Iron horse seem to be very popular - in the sales areas anyway, lots of them up for sale.

Ta.

bennett_346

Agree with that plan, you have two very similarly intentioned bikes. I *think* evans have the Norco Aurum £500 off atm btw.

EDIT:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/nor ... e-ec031652

felix.london

Good call to keep the Enduro and use the 456 to fund a DH bike - think that's what I'd have done too.

All I can say - is I love my Session 8! Used, Medium, 2011 model. Got it for €2K. Rides great, inspires confidence (a little too much sometimes), looks the part and a proper DH race bike!

Changed the pedals and swapped out the 38t ring for a more manageable 34t. The Elixr R's leave a lot to be desired but they do their job just don't feel great. Will whack on a set of new SLX brakes next season as they just have more feel and seem to be more powerful too...apart from that it's tickety-boo. Fun, fun, fun

lawman

The enduro does actually make a great mini DH bike, particularly the newer style ones, several guys from uni have them and rate them very highly, feck I hate specialized with a passion and I must admit they all ride very nicely in a DH environment. My tip would be try an angleset, plug in a 170m lyrik or 36 and give it a proper DH build, will be much more managable than you think.

bennett_346

lawman wrote:

feck I hate specialized with a passion and I must admit they all ride very nicely in a DH environment.

??

lawman

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

feck I hate specialized with a passion and I must admit they all ride very nicely in a DH environment.

??

My friends enduros which are all set up as mini DH bikes, ride nicely. the stumpy a local guy has.... Well it doesnt even deserve words its that shit. We have some stupidly steep hills at uni, and full on DH bikes aren't that great, bikes with less travel and with slack geometry work much better, and it sounds like the OP would suit a similar setup

bennett_346

lawman wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

feck I hate specialized with a passion and I must admit they all ride very nicely in a DH environment.

??

My friends enduros which are all set up as mini DH bikes, ride nicely. the stumpy a local guy has.... Well it doesnt even deserve words its that shoot. We have some stupidly steep hills at uni, and full on DH bikes aren't that great, bikes with less travel and with slack geometry work much better, and it sounds like the OP would suit a similar setup

Must be a shit rider then, because my stumpy has never let me down since i got it. Its been down alpine XC and DH tracks and all the very steep tracks at home.

I guess if you're a good rider like me the bike itself matters less?

lawman

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

feck I hate specialized with a passion and I must admit they all ride very nicely in a DH environment.

??

My friends enduros which are all set up as mini DH bikes, ride nicely. the stumpy a local guy has.... Well it doesnt even deserve words its that shoot. We have some stupidly steep hills at uni, and full on DH bikes aren't that great, bikes with less travel and with slack geometry work much better, and it sounds like the OP would suit a similar setup

Must be a shoot rider then, because my stumpy has never let me down since i got it. Its been down alpine XC and DH tracks and all the very steep tracks at home.

I guess if you're a good rider like me the bike itself matters less?

He is a shit rider, and he rides a shit bike. Do you have an Audi? Anyways I'm a fairly decent rider, so lets not turn this into who's the better rider thread.

bennett_346

lawman wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

feck I hate specialized with a passion and I must admit they all ride very nicely in a DH environment.

??

My friends enduros which are all set up as mini DH bikes, ride nicely. the stumpy a local guy has.... Well it doesnt even deserve words its that shoot. We have some stupidly steep hills at uni, and full on DH bikes aren't that great, bikes with less travel and with slack geometry work much better, and it sounds like the OP would suit a similar setup

Must be a shoot rider then, because my stumpy has never let me down since i got it. Its been down alpine XC and DH tracks and all the very steep tracks at home.

I guess if you're a good rider like me the bike itself matters less?

He is a shoot rider, and he rides a shoot bike. Do you have an Audi? Anyways I'm a fairly decent rider, so lets not turn this into who's the better rider thread.

You do talk shite most of the time though. You actually seem like you're insecure about your riding.

You strike me as one of those people who when they have an opinion, it becomes a fact to them.

lawman

bennett_346 wrote:

You do talk shite most of the time though. You actually seem like you're insecure about your riding.

You strike me as one of those people who when they have an opinion, it becomes a fact to them.

Insecure about my riding?! You're having a laugh mate, sure I wish I was abit fitter, but fucking hell I'm quite happy with how I ride thanks!! You sound just like that guy actually, a total prick who feels like he has to brag about his "alpine shredding gnarcore DH holidays" to back up your fucking opinion that you are the dogs fucking bollocks.

Whether I talk shite is open to debate and if you think I do then well done to you for having an opinion. :roll:

DodgeT

Easy chaps, was getting some good info there..

@ lawman, only problem with doing all that to the enduro, is it then makes it less of a do it all machine and is focusing it on downhill. I'd then be in the dilemma of keeping the C456 to use as the "do it all" machine and if i've got to choose, I prefer the do it all capabilities of the enduro. Hence figuring keeping the enduro fairly std and getting a dedicated DH bike.

Nice link on the Norco bennett, wasn't entertaining new but at that price !!!

Oh, I drive an audi btw so have to bear that in mind

bennett_346

It's posts like that, and this (viewtopic.php?f=10002&t=12859700&p=17678064#p17678064) that make me wonder if you're borderlining paranoia, lawman.

And also, anyone who gives a crap what anyone else drives is a knobber. For the record i'm 19 and don't even own a car!

felix.london

lawman wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

feck I hate specialized with a passion and I must admit they all ride very nicely in a DH environment.

??

My friends enduros which are all set up as mini DH bikes, ride nicely. the stumpy a local guy has.... Well it doesnt even deserve words its that shoot. We have some stupidly steep hills at uni, and full on DH bikes aren't that great, bikes with less travel and with slack geometry work much better, and it sounds like the OP would suit a similar setup

The Stumpjumper is an awesome bike in all it's guises - always has been and always will be. Had an FSR Elite last year for a few days and couldn't fault it...anywhere

bennett_346

DodgeT wrote:

Easy chaps, was getting some good info there..

@ lawman, only problem with doing all that to the enduro, is it then makes it less of a do it all machine and is focusing it on downhill. I'd then be in the dilemma of keeping the C456 to use as the "do it all" machine and if i've got to choose, I prefer the do it all capabilities of the enduro. Hence figuring keeping the enduro fairly std and getting a dedicated DH bike.

Nice link on the Norco bennett, wasn't entertaining new but at that price !!!

Oh, I drive an audi btw so have to bear that in mind

I've no idea what they ride like, but it felt light for a DH bike in the shop and it seemed a good deal. Buying a DH is tricky as it's hard to judge size or shape from a car park test!

lawman

bennett_346 wrote:

It's posts like that, and this (viewtopic.php?f=10002&t=12859700&p=17678064#p17678064) that make me wonder if you're borderlining paranoia, lawman.

And also, anyone who gives a crap what anyone else drives is a knobber. For the record i'm 19 and don't even own a car!

I don't drive either, I'm 20 and can't see a reason to run a car, but its atleast nice to know you don't conform to the specialized sterotype well some of it anyway...

Felix, its just opinion, apparently its illegal to have one round here these days. I didnt like it, felt far to squishy, slow, unresponsive and its just a specialized, if it works for you great, if you own one fantastic, my OPINION is that its not all its hyped up to be as some would have you believe.

rockmonkeysc

The Enduro would be ok, I built up a Reign X in to a mini DH bike with 170mm coil RC2DH Lyriks, Push tuned Van R shock, angle set & offset rear bushes and it was good but when I replaced it with a Nukeproof Scalp the difference in speed for me was massive. A proper downhill bike is so much more stable and easier to ride fast on proper downhill tracks and gives more confidence to push hard.
If I was buying used I would go for an old style Glory (new ones are more likely to crack), a Demo or for me the top choice would be a Iron Horse Sunday. Trek Sessions are good but they aren't quite as bombproof as some of the alternatives.
If you can spend a bit more there are some epic deals on basic model Scalp's, Aurums and Rose have got good discounts on the Beefcake DH.
I kind of agree about Specialized bikes not feeling great when you push them hard though the Demo is the exception to that, it feels lively and responsive.

Anonymous

Keep the 456 as a hard tail , keep the Enduro as an AM bike, buy a full on DH bike :P

How much DH are you going to do?

I'm holding off on a DH until I feel I can do a proper DH bike justice, and probably won't. So for now a Nomad with Lyrik RC2DH forks (170) gives me some starter DH capable riding, cracking AM/XC/trail/whatever you like riding. A bike at home in the local hills, Welsh/Scottish mountains and the idea was to hit the Alps, maybe even the Mega. Perfectly capable bike for all of that.

And then I have a C456 as the hard tail which is an entirely different experience, though similar head angle. More as a toy, was originally for tamer trails, but found it can be chucked around a fair bit. To me it's the spare bike. I wouldn't want a DH bike as the only spare when the other needs repairs and I want to ride.


Oh and as for cars... wait until you want to get to far off or remote places that require transport where public transport can cut it

supersonic

What is your budget, and would testing be an option?

rockmonkeysc

Keep the 456 as a hard tail

There's a piece of advice no one will argue with

DodgeT

@ rockmonkey - cheers for that info, thats exactly the kind of thing I was wanting to hear - re the proper downhill bike being a lot better than the mdified AM bike, which is basically what i'd be doing.

@deadkenny - i'd love to keep the 456, but in all honesty, it wouldn't get ridden as i'd either be at the DH trails on the bike i haven't bought yet or riding trails, natural stuff on the enduro. Don't get me wrong, if I had the room/cash i'd have a garage full of bikes for every occasion
I'm going to be doing quite a bit of DH hopefully, not break your neck gap jump, 10 ft drop off stuff, but enough to make me want a DH rig. Plus, end of the day i've always wanted one and its something I feel I need to try. May end up getting rid like currently with the 456 but so what, it's good to try new things.

@ sonic - well, I guess maybe up to £2k. I'd love to test some, just don't know where would have demo's, might have to make some calls over the next few days.

Certainly like the look of the aurum 2 and the scalp, only £30 diff, seem very similar spec too

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/nor ... =Affiliate

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=75656

supersonic

If you can't demo one, I'd go for one of the german super deals. All are getting great reviews. Canyin, Rose, YT, can't go wrong.

ilovedirt

I wouldn't go for a canyon personally. It's just not a proper downhill bike.
The YT tues looks awesome though.

supersonic

What is a proper DH bike though?!

rockmonkeysc

@ Dodge T: I would definitely recommend a Scalp, epic good downhill bike, everyone who has one or has ridden one only seems to have good things to say about it. They are very popular with racers because they ride extremely well, they are very strong, spares are very easy to get through CRC and they are a lot cheaper than Demo's & Glory's and ride just as well. Getting a demo ride won't be easy, if you are in Somerset send me a PM or go to any uplift day and you might find someone who will let you try one.
The Canyon isn't really a DH bike, it's a freeride bike with shiny DH bits bolted on. The geometry is not right for a modern DH bike, closer to bikes from 5 years ago. The YT gets good reviews but the wait to get one is a lot longer than they quote.

supersonic

The Canyon isn't really a DH bike, it's a freeride bike with shiny DH bits bolted on

Which Canyon? One has nigh on identical geo to the Spesh!

Geo varies a lot amongst DH and FR bikes, even pros with the same machines have different geo set ups. There isn't 'one' good set of figures.

DodgeT

T'is a bloomin shame these are sold out http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/rose-beef-cake-dh-2-524526/aid:524541

rockmonkeysc

It's not that close to the Demo. Some areas of the geometry are way off.
The Demo, Scalp, Summum, 951, Session, Fury & Gambler are all pretty close on geometry. The Glory is a bit off but can be sorted with an angleset (Giant Factory team have slacker frames).

supersonic

Wheel base within 18mm for a medium, nigh on identical head angles, 4mm in the CS length, seat angle - well doesn't make too much difference, you don't sit on it (but is 3 degs), 5mm in the ETT, stack and reach close too.

A lot closer than say a Scalp or some of the others you mention!

paul.skibum

The Aurum is a great bike - looks great, rides great, always seems to be accelerating! Rails corners and pushes out of them. The lower spec ones have some slightly dodgy kit on them and the rental fleet on the mountain here has suffered a few failures in the x fusion shocks so if you can go for the 1 instead of the 2 I would but then your own bike is likely to be better cared for potentially.

I ride a Big Hit (second hand) which I admit is freeride rather than full DH but its a great bike for me, nicely active in its travel and a good long top tube that somehow still makes it easy to get over the back. Demo's look to be very similar to me so I wouldnt hesitate to try one of them if I were in the market for a slightly bigger bike.

I don't drive an Audi (though I have done and really liked my mates A4 for mile munching! Found his TT a bit boring though).

DodgeT

£2k is already a lot more than I first had in mind, and I certainly wasn't thinking new, but that aurum 2 is lovely if not jsut in looks.
Funnily enough I just ordered a red'ish DH jersey and gloves yesterday, so would match the bike :cool: (got to justify it some way )

RIKO

I can recommend the Specialized Status 1 great fun bike I'm a shade over 6"2" and went for the large it actually even pedals reasonably well! 170mm travel front 200mm rear. Seems a bit more usable most of the time than a full 200mm travel fork beast.