knee pain - poor "fitness" or poor set up?

satnavsteve

Evening all,
I've done a couple of rides recently where I have challenged myself and don't know whether I've just pushed it too far given my level of fitness, or if there is an issue with my position on the bike.

I usually ride for 25/30ish miles, about 3 times a week on relatively easy rolling terrain. Had a bit more time available in the last week, so did 50 odd hilly miles and started experiencing pain in my knees, and i can only describe it as being just beneath my knee caps - although occasionally also at the back of my knees.

I couldn't spare the time to ride for a couple of days after this, but then managed to get out this morning. Did 40 hilly miles, and the pain was still there after a couple of miles. It's particularly bad on the hills.

So my question is, have I just strained myself because I'm not really used to the distance and hills? or could there be an issue with my position which has become an issue with the longer time in the saddle?

Advice appreciated. Cheers.
SNS

TheEnglishman

My money's on bad setup. Why not go to a decent bike shop and get a bike fit?

declan1

satnavsteve wrote:

Evening all,
I've done a couple of rides recently where I have challenged myself and don't know whether I've just pushed it too far given my level of fitness, or if there is an issue with my position on the bike.

I usually ride for 25/30ish miles, about 3 times a week on relatively easy rolling terrain. Had a bit more time available in the last week, so did 50 odd hilly miles and started experiencing pain in my knees, and i can only describe it as being just beneath my knee caps - although occasionally also at the back of my knees.

I couldn't spare the time to ride for a couple of days after this, but then managed to get out this morning. Did 40 hilly miles, and the pain was still there after a couple of miles. It's particularly bad on the hills.

So my question is, have I just strained myself because I'm not really used to the distance and hills? or could there be an issue with my position which has become an issue with the longer time in the saddle?

Advice appreciated. Cheers.
SNS

Most likely setup. Is your saddle high enough? Is it in the right fore/aft position? A proper bike fit as said above will probably help a lot. I've still to get one!

Damian3.14

I've developed a similar problem recently when sprinting and pulling up on the other pedal while cranking hard. Over exertion for someone of my age certainly but it did make me think about getting a decent set up sorted. A month later walking still hurts but I'm back on the bike doing 20k spins and trying to keep cadence up and torque down. Cycling doesn't hurt and seems to be helping my recovery.

dazzlers82

I too have been suffering with knee pain it gets a rest as I can only ride every other week but after about 20 miles it starts to hurt again but it's on the inside part of my knee cap an feels like a bruise I have tried to get a bike fit but there fully booked till October and I'm in the middle of changing my doctors an there so slow so I have not managed to get an appointment to see him yet either so I'm just riding until it hurts then taking it easy an resting it till its gone again

Monty Dog

Pain under the kneecap is usually just down to putting too much strain on your knees - the pressure forces the knee-cap over the moving joint causing inflammation on the underside. Simply give it time to recover, stick to easy gears if riding and no seated 'grinding' up hills. Anti-inflammatories can assist recovery. Bike fit can help, but generally it's down to training adaptation and developing a more economic, fluid pedalling style.

TheEnglishman

What, exactly, is an 'economic, fluid pedaling style'

Serious question!

Secteur

low saddle, low tendon fitness.

It takes weeks & months for your patella tendons (which take a hammering) to toughen up.

Take it easy, build up your mileage / intensity slowly (no more than 10% week MAX - less is better).

Try lifting your saddle a touch. Do some decent online reading about bike set up first to make sure you get it right. No need for a full bike fit just yet.

satnavsteve

Thanks for all that so far,

Re the saddle height - It has gradually gone up and up over the months to the point where I think it's pretty good from what I've read up on. I think any higher and I will be over extending. Is the forward / aft likely to be causing an issue? I have both bikes set with the saddle as far forward as they will go.
Thanks
SNS

skaboy607

A good bike fit is certainly going to do no harm, and it will rule that out as an option.

Llike others have mentioned, it really does take a while to build up the strength in the tendons, especially around the knees. You are putting a lot of stress/force through them when you pedal, especially on hills where the force is 'constant'.

I'm no specialist but..I suffered with a bad IT band for a while, and just stuck to flat rides with low intensity for about two weeks, and after each ride, get an ice cube, wrap it one layer thick in a tea towel and then apply to tendon/sore area. Can do it twice if you like.

This really helped me get over the problem so I could then concentrate on strengthening the tendons. Also winter is fast approaching, maybe get down the gym and do so excercises that stengthen the knees up. Squats are brilliant for this but do it on a low weight otherwise you will be right back where you started.

Just my experience, enjoy!

BelgianBeerGeek

Monty Dog wrote:

Pain under the kneecap is usually just down to putting too much strain on your knees - the pressure forces the knee-cap over the moving joint causing inflammation on the underside. Simply give it time to recover, stick to easy gears if riding and no seated 'grinding' up hills. Anti-inflammatories can assist recovery. Bike fit can help, but generally it's down to training adaptation and developing a more economic, fluid pedalling style.

+1 to this. You are probably grinding a high gear at a low cadence. You may not be aware you are even doing it. This was the problem I had and trained myself to spin a lower gear. It took a while to break the habit but I now have no problems with knees. Before you book the bike fit, try spinning more. It's certainly a cheaper solution!

El Zomba

Sorry to chuck another ellement into this, but would cleat positioning have anything to do with this as well? I get similar knee pains if I do a lot of running and I know this is down to foot strike. I wonder if not having your cleats set up right might create additional preasure on the knee through poor positioning on the peddles. It's certainly a smaller issue than saddle height or spinning technique, but it might exacerbate anything else that is causing gyp to the knee.

ugo.santalucia

Monty Dog wrote:

Pain under the kneecap is usually just down to putting too much strain on your knees - the pressure forces the knee-cap over the moving joint causing inflammation on the underside. Simply give it time to recover, stick to easy gears if riding and no seated 'grinding' up hills. Anti-inflammatories can assist recovery. Bike fit can help, but generally it's down to training adaptation and developing a more economic, fluid pedalling style.

+1
your body is designed to cope well with different riding positions... the problem is most of the times lack of specific training and incorrect use of gears.
People often prefer to blame the equipment and find the easy way out of pain and bike fit is seen as one...

velocitygirl

skaboy607 wrote:

A good bike fit is certainly going to do no harm, and it will rule that out as an option.

Llike others have mentioned, it really does take a while to build up the strength in the tendons, especially around the knees. You are putting a lot of stress/force through them when you pedal, especially on hills where the force is 'constant'.

I'm no specialist but..I suffered with a bad IT band for a while, and just stuck to flat rides with low intensity for about two weeks, and after each ride, get an ice cube, wrap it one layer thick in a tea towel and then apply to tendon/sore area. Can do it twice if you like.

This really helped me get over the problem so I could then concentrate on strengthening the tendons. Also winter is fast approaching, maybe get down the gym and do so excercises that stengthen the knees up. Squats are brilliant for this but do it on a low weight otherwise you will be right back where you started.

Just my experience, enjoy!

Agreed!

Ice is your friend, and so are strength exercises! If you find the pain is still nagging after trying everything and it's keeping you from progressing, perhaps consider seeing a specialist.. I just had a scope done and had a meniscus tear repaired and apparently I had arthritis developing as well. My own experience.. but I had the procedure 8/13 and I am almost ready to start training again, and didn't realize how much wouldn't have healed on it's own and needed repair. Just something to consider if it just never seems to improve.

Mikey23

Yup, high gear low cadence is what I was going to suggest. Had this quite a lot of this when I first started and notice it when I've been pushing too high. I'm a little better at using my gears now and can bumble along at quite a good speed in a lower gear. I think my knees are a bit better used to the effort, so not that much of an issue now

satnavsteve

Thanks again for all that info.

I must admit that the spinning is something I always try to achieve when out having read around the topics a lot, but I am probably unknowingly slipping into grind mode sometimes.

snoopsmydogg

another vote for possible cleat positioning.

I started to suffer with knee pain around 10 miles into a ride and hadnt changed anything so was left wondering. Turns out the right cleat had come slightly loose, not enough to move by hand but had definately moved out of position while pedalling over time.

A quick adjustment and all seems ok for now

Monty Dog

FWIW cleat mis-alignment is more likely to result in side-to-side knee pain due to the twisting forces exerted as the knee ends up compensating for a mis-aligned foot. Here's a few tips:
http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/cleats.html
I spend a couple of years designing articial limbs so got to know the mechanics of knees fairly intimately!

snoopsmydogg

Monty Dog wrote:

FWIW cleat mis-alignment is more likely to result in side-to-side knee pain due to the twisting forces exerted as the knee ends up compensating for a mis-aligned foot. Here's a few tips:
http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/cleats.html
I spend a couple of years designing articial limbs so got to know the mechanics of knees fairly intimately!

is that the same if the cleat has moved back or forward too? my cleat was in the same position (angle) as when set just further forward than it should have been.

ben@31

Heres my bizarre knee pain story...

... My right knee will get a dull pain on the down the right hand side. If I shuffle around the saddle a bit and change my position it suddenly goes, then may come back a few km later. My left knee, nothing! No pain at all, my left knee can keep on going for miles.

Unless there is a problem with the right cleat, I would have thought any problem with the bike set up or my fitness (I'm new to cycling) would have effected both knees.

I am right footed, could I be using the right leg more?

Wunnunda

One leg longer than the other? Seriously...

Not cycling related but had a friend who started running who had hip and knee pain because he had a longer right right leg. He'd never realised it (he was in his 30's!) until he started distance running. Shoe inserts helped him.

Monty Dog

The problem for many with leg-length differences is that people have lived their whole lives with the condition like above - it often manifests itself though a twisted or dropped pelvis and it is only due to chronic conditions in later life, or when riders start experiencing discomfort and go for a bike fit that it is discovered. Poor posture, injuries and muscular imbalances mean that most of us are biomechanically compromised in some form and it is often the job of bike fitters and to try and optimise the re-alignment of the limbs to minimise unwanted stresses on the joints.

HasselHough

My 2p worth.

I had some front of the knee pain and the answer for me was to move the saddle back a few mm, and down a few mm. I used the Steve Hogg sitting pretty DVD as my guide, where the balance test is used for saddle fore and aft position.

I also have some knee mal tracking (saw a physio) and I foam roll my ITB morning and night.

Hope you get sorted.

Bunker Spreckels

In my case it was an injury dancing that scuppered me...!! Old enough to know better than cutting shapes on the dance floor, but hey?!

Torn meniscus, and resulting muscle wastage seems to have exacerbated existing arthritis type injury under patella... just been for surgery two days ago, starting exercises now and proper physio in two weeks.

So, meniscus trimmed, back of the patella smoothed with a plasma machine. Two holes on right side of right knee, some swelling, some pain, too much endone makes me feel a bit blaghhh...

Bought some rollers which will come soon for training, the question for you experts is, when can I cycle again???

Monty Dog

Bought some rollers which will come soon for training, the question for you experts is, when can I cycle again???

Seek medical advise, but start gently maybe on an indoor trainer - if it starts hurting during or after then ease-off. If you're not experiencing discomfort, ramp-up slowly i.e. no more than 10% increase/week.