Steel hardtail XC frame - would i notice any difference?

70\ʹspenguin

I dont hammer the trails, but i do use my bike everyday for pretty much everything. I commute on it, fitness train on it and enjoy spending the day on fast rolling XC with a few techy bits thrown in. My current frame is alu XC oriented and its great for quick blasts, but its becoming less comfortable for the all-dayers.

Ive been toying with the idea of a slightly more relaxed geom to relieve the stress on my wrist(war wound), but keeping a frame that is optimal at 100mm travel that could, perhaps, take something bigger if i decide i fancy a change. I also want something that gives a softer ride - hence i have been looking at a few Steel frames.

My Current ETT length is 602mm, HA 71 Degrees, so im looking for something a little more upright and relaxed but still XC and not too "sit-up-and-beg".

I was wondering if with my kind of riding i would notice the effects/benefits of a steel frame? I know there would be a weight penalty but that would be ok if the ride was compliant. Would i "feel" a softer ride due to the material or would the ride quality simply rely on the frame geom alone?

Id be looking at the 2nd Hand market and ive become rather fond of the look of the Charge dusters.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Matthew

cooldad

Why should it make any specific difference?

70\ʹspenguin

cooldad wrote:

Why should it make any specific difference?

Well, from reading reviews on steel frames it seems they are more forgiving and can give a softer ride feel. However, im not sure if this only really relates to a harder style of riding or not, or if its more psychological than actual?

I love the look of some of the steel frames, but if its not going to benefit me and only hinder due to increased weight then ill go for aluminium again.

Perhaps that makes more sense now?

supersonic

Steel is THREE times stiffer than aluminium. How a frame feels totally depends on how it is constructed, the narrower lighter steel frames can be quite whippy.

So rather than look at the material, need to look at the individual frame.

70\ʹspenguin

supersonic wrote:

Steel is THREE times stiffer than aluminium. How a frame feels totally depends on how it is constructed, the narrower lighter steel frames can be quite whippy.

I understand this and flex or whip is not something i think i need to be concerned about, but on pretty much every steel oriented thread i read people saying how comfortable and forgiving it is. I was wondering if this was similar to carbon forks that, from personal experience, i know were a lot more forgiving and comfortable than aluminium and cheap sus ones?

Steel was something i had never given thought to until the past few days when looking at various frames, and many people just seem to love them.

supersonic wrote:

So rather than look at the material, need to look at the individual frame.

I started to google steel XC frames around the 2kg mark and read a little about their behaviour and hence i came across the Charge Duster, Handjob, Lobster etc and read favourable reviews.

Im just not sure if steel is the worth the added weight? Perhaps this is just another "piece of string" question?

cooldad

Steel doesn't mean heavier. My steel (large) roadbike is lighter than my son's aluminium (smaller) one.

70\ʹspenguin

cooldad wrote:

Steel doesn't mean heavier. My steel (large) roadbike is lighter than my son's aluminium (smaller) one.

Yes agreed, and id only be talking a few hundred grams in some cases (i think my frame weighs 1850g), but its still a factor when something like the duster comes in at 2300g for the medium.

ilovedirt

Depends on a lot of things, such as how the frame is built - a lightweight racy steel frame might feel flexier than an over-built steel frame designed for much more aggressive riding. I just like the skinny tube look

70\ʹspenguin

ilovedirt wrote:

Depends on a lot of things, such as how the frame is built - a lightweight racy steel frame might feel flexier than an over-built steel frame designed for much more aggressive riding. I just like the skinny tube look

I have to admit i like the skinny tube look also!

supersonic

Some materials do have an inherhant vibration absorbing property - aluminium is somewhat better than steel though (like for like!).

20 years ago you could say steel frames were flexy, alu was harsh, as almost all frames were xc based and the good steel ones very light (sub 4lbs), and the good alu ones oversized and stiff.

Nowadays you simply can't say that, so much variation.

rockmonkeysc

The new skinny tubed Charge Duster frame has really good ride quality and ramps out some of the harshness.
My steel On One frame is no more comfortable than any aluminium frame.

paul.skibum

All I can tell you is I have a Handjob and I love it. Mine is an older one (not that I think they changed much) run with 100mm fork. I personally prefert he ride and feel vs the old Malt 2 I had before it. Whetehr youd feel the same - who knows.

Penylope

Take a look at your seatpost first, do you have a stiff post ( :oops: )?

Having changed the seatpost on my Soul recently from an Easton EA70 to a Thompson layback, i can definatly tell the difference in the ride.

Not that the Soul suffers overmuch from a stiff rear, but the Thompson is very stiff, passing 'trail buzz' up into the saddle (and my @r$e :P ), more so than the Easton. But i didnt realize the Easton was so comfortable untill I swapped (the head clamp failed, otherwise i would not have changed), so it may be worth trying different posts first (either in your frame, or if you find a new alli one you like then in that).

The post has had so much of an influence that i'm looking for a carbon replacement to the Thompsom now :roll:

HenryTheHoover

My understanding about the science of it is that ( roughly ) Alloy 1/3 the strength of steel but also roughly 1/3 the density. Generally Alloy frames therefore have tubes with a bigger diameter but thinner walls to give the frame the required strength and stiffness to equal ye olden steel frames of days gone by. The result even though the material is noot as strong as steel is a lighter frame than steel ( due to the thinner tube walls) and also generally a stiffer ride (due to the tube diameter more than anything else)

Steel frames have tubes with less diameter but slightly thicker walls ( which is possible because steel is stronger than alloy for a given solid shape). However having tubes with a smaller diameter in the frame construction allows the frame to flex more.

There you go , clear as mud

robmanic1

paul.skibum wrote:

All I can tell you is I have a Handjob and I love it. Mine is an older one (not that I think they changed much) run with 100mm fork. I personally prefert he ride and feel vs the old Malt 2 I had before it. Whetehr youd feel the same - who knows.

Totally agree, I also have a HJ, can't believe the difference. Really comfortable ride, especially on hardpack, gravelly stuff, farm tracks and field edges that have been carved up by horses, much more "feel" than any of my previous ally frames.

Would never go back to ally, next bike will be a Cotic!

70\ʹspenguin

Thank you all. Rob and Paul, that is encouraging to hear. Ill be keeping a lookout for any Duster frames that appear then

Anonymous

Had a charge duster (rigid fork) rolled nice, not to heavy either however, noticed the paint finish easily chipped though.