Just back from Nederlands - why cant we do that?
bushu
Posts: 711
After a short birfday trip over the river to Nederlands, we stayed outside amsterdam and admit i didnt try cycling in 'dam as it looked too stressfull. I did however manage to rent a bike shaped object from the hotel and took a trip out to Haarlem with the missus and it was brilliant having cycle lanes everywhere, the odd scooter but no idiot cars skimming by beeping. What appeared to be the middle of nowhere & cyclists flying by every minute, i could have honestly been dead and in nirvana, was sooo nice in the sun sat watching people 'being dutch'..
How can we have it so wrong, York doesn't have a patch on it and i thought that was the northern cycling mecca
How can we have it so wrong, York doesn't have a patch on it and i thought that was the northern cycling mecca
0
Comments
-
the segregated cycling action you saw there needs to be the model here
biked in dam and Berlin and it shows how narrow thinking the leaders of this country really are
when they decide to do it -
most 4 lane city centre roads will be taken down to 2 lanes (loads of space for pavement and cycle lanes), and bus / bike only 30% of a city roads) - most citys have some 1 way system which is leaning that way
can you imagine what white van man would say (he would blame asylum seekers first)........... not to mention taxi and bus drivers...... oh but they serve the public.......0 -
-
-
I have had a few trips to Holland recently and generally do like the way that cycling is always considered and integrated into traffic. Amsterdam is a bit big cityish and sometimes the bikes are a bit of a hazard but provided you are aware of cycle lanes whilst walking then it's OK.
Just got back from a trip to Germany (former East Germany above Berlin) and was impressed by both the facilities for cycling and the general driver attitude towards cyclists. There are many dedicated cyclepaths running alongside the roads seperated by either several feet of verge or often fences/crash barriers. There are cycle tracks through pedestrian arears where the cycle path is in a different colour or surface material to highlight it. There are cycle parking racks of all types all over the place and of course many people do therefore cycle to get around.
On the roads the surfaces are superb right to the edge with occasional repairs or patching carried out to an immaculate standard. When vehicles catch up with you they will either pass clearly and widely giving lots of room or they slow to wait behind until they have clear room to pass and they don't give any impression of being impatioent or upset by waiting.
The only thing to consider is that the cyclist has a duty to abide by the rules and use the cycle paths which also means waiting patiently at the dedicated cycle traffic lights whilst vehicles or pedestrians have the green light. This meant that on occasion I ended up following a cycle path that veered around 25 to 50 metres away from the road including routing round the back of the occasional building or layby and dipping up and down through ridges and gullies rather than riding on the straighter and flatter road. It also meant using the cyclepatch on the wrong side of the road at times which seemed odd but they do have 2 way traffic on these rather than putting tracks on both side of the roads. When you are trying to keep a good average speed up and press on a bit then this can be a bit frustrating but is part of the compromise.
Of course when it comes down to it, it wouldn't be possible to build something similar throughout Britain as there just isn't the space for the extra width that dedicated paths would need. You also get the impression in the area I was that land ownership is less of an issue as the majority of the land around seemed to be totally unfenced and open with fields of crops simply running out and becoming grass/weeds/scrub then becoming a different crop a couple of hinfred metres further. The fields just merged into trees and became woodland with patches of open land between and I have no idea how you could tell where one properties boundaries started or ended. On a couple of occasions we passed road maintenance/improvement and basically they just seemed to widen the road or added cycle paths where they felt like it because after all whats a few more metres when the surrounding land just goes on and on.0 -
madtam wrote:
Of course when it comes down to it, it wouldn't be possible to build something similar throughout Britain as there just isn't the space for the extra width that dedicated paths would need.
The Netherlands is hardly full of wide open spaces. It's one of the densest populated proper nation in the world.
If you have any reasonable road with pavements on both sides it's pretty straightforward to do.0 -
Why can't we do what?
Wear orange?
Dye carrots?What do you mean you think 64cm is a big frame?0 -
Don't mind wearing orange either
but i obviously meant the cycling mentality of an awesome country.
i do believe carrots have to right to be any colour they wish, as long as it's colour not color :?0 -
It wouldn't work. London is too congested and most of the streets are too narrow. Making segregated lanes would cause more traffic and make people feel on top of each other, more so than they do now.
What would improve things is:
1. More cyclists.
2. Less motorised vehicles.
3. Less people in London.
1. Will happen over time. 2 and 3 could happen if the City, manufacturers/industry and shops etc started expanding outwards towards the M25 and beyond. London is too compact given the number of people living within its boundaries.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Personally, I hate the Netherlands system. So expensive, yet seems to make cycling anywhere harder and much slower.
I prefer the Belgium system. It's much cheaper and easier to ride longer distances. Segregation is only done on major roads. It's mostly just a solid white line defining the bike lane. Imagine the superhighways without the bus stops, car park spaces and random breaks.
0 -
Yep, wouldn't work in UK - road system too old and too well established for the wholesale change that would be required. At best it would result in bikes being forced to use a reduced number of "cycle superhighways" which would be clogged up with nodders. What is needed is a change in attitude from drivers - give cyclists more room, look out for cyclists, keep speeds to appropriate levels and cut out the aggression. None of this is likely to happen without the police / judiciary getting a lot tougher on those who intimidate, injure or kill cyclists. Such a policy would not be popular, but it would be a damn sight cheaper and more effective than more blue paint and ludicrous bike lanes that stop whenever you reach a dangerous junction.0
-
Rick Chasey wrote:madtam wrote:
Of course when it comes down to it, it wouldn't be possible to build something similar throughout Britain as there just isn't the space for the extra width that dedicated paths would need.Rick Chasey wrote:The Netherlands is hardly full of wide open spaces. It's one of the densest populated proper nation in the world.
It is densely populated, but none of the cities are anything like the scale of london.
[/quote]Rick Chasey wrote:If you have any reasonable road with pavements on both sides it's pretty straightforward to do.
That is quite a big if, there are wide streets but most uk cities tend towards the narrow rather than wide.0 -
Not all streets *need* cycle lanes to be honest. But there are many that could do with them, and theres plenty of space. Just consider the stretch of the Embankment along the Physic garden. No reason for the car lane to be that wide. Put a cycle lane in and cyclists get more room in heavy traffic, and the motorised vehicle flow isn't even affected at all.
Also, the biggest problem with cycle lanes in the UK isn't always the lack of them. Most of the time they're just useless. If there was a more intelligent and nationally consistent approach to planning lanes then it would make a huge difference.0 -
I 100% agree that London streets are too narrow for cycle lanes, and so does this blog post complete with lots and lots of pictures: http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2012/07/10/the-physical-constraints-of-londons-streets/
(I'm being sarky, sorry
) 0 -
CookeeeMonster wrote:I 100% agree that London streets are too narrow for cycle lanes, and so does this blog post complete with lots and lots of pictures: http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2012/07/10/the-physical-constraints-of-londons-streets/
(I'm being sarky, sorry )
Whoever did that blog is a hero.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:CookeeeMonster wrote:I 100% agree that London streets are too narrow for cycle lanes, and so does this blog post complete with lots and lots of pictures: http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2012/07/10/the-physical-constraints-of-londons-streets/
(I'm being sarky, sorry )
Whoever did that blog is a hero.
There are very few roads that are too narrow, eg the strand, that is very wide and has a wide central reservation, cut that in half and voila the space needed for a wide cycle lane that can even be separated by a kerbstone.
It's a load of nonsense that there is no space in London, a few roads maybe yeah but not the majority.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:CookeeeMonster wrote:I 100% agree that London streets are too narrow for cycle lanes, and so does this blog post complete with lots and lots of pictures: http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2012/07/10/the-physical-constraints-of-londons-streets/
(I'm being sarky, sorry )
Whoever did that blog is a hero.
+1 they still do it. Riding home the other day slightly slower than normal due to a minor injury and was amazed how less friendly the roads seemed. I'd rather cycling was something everyone could do, even if it did mean sacrificing some of the perverse pleasure of dancing with taxis and vans.0 -
in addition I think the Olympics proved that many journeys by private motor vehicles in town are just not necessary - and reducing the amount of road space for cars on certain roads aint gonna explode the sun.0
-
*Also*
I don't recall seeing one cyclist with helmet.. :?0 -
Shows how far we have to go in this country when cyclists say the roads are too narrow for bike lanes.
Shouldn't we be saying that once you've put in the cycle lane, the roads are too narrow for cars?0 -
bushu wrote:*Also*
I don't recall seeing one cyclist with helmet.. :?
Another reason to make them compulsory then. We can't possibly be seen to follow the example of one of those European countries where everybody rides, can we?
Space is at a premium in most cities. It only stands to reason that we dedicate it to the most space-inefficient vehicle possible.0 -
I grew up in NL, was cycling to school from the age of 7-8, and honestly never even made a connection between riding a bike and wearing a helmet until I moved to the UK where I promptly stopped cycling because the roads were so inhospitable!bushu wrote:*Also*
I don't recall seeing one cyclist with helmet.. :?0
